The Strafford Club

[Anonymous]

Could somebody tell me if the Strafford Club still exists at St.Andrews.

[monkeymadness]

what's the strafford club?

[Emma]

An alleged all-male 'secret society', and yes, I think it does.

[Buffy]

interesting how the woman knows . . .

[Al]

Isn't the point of a secret society to be, well, secret? If everyone knows about the existence of these "shadowy" organisations hasn't the point been lost? Unless - the secret societies that we know about are only a front for the really secret society. By letting us become aware of the existence of some "secret societies", the safety of the really secret one is preserved.

Or there again, probably not. It's probably that the members of the Strafford Club can't help but reveal its existence. They think people will be all impressed and jealous. Newsflash boys - you impress no one.

[Anonymous]

The Strafford Club is not a secret society. It is, however, a private dining club - membership is by invitation. It makes no effort to conceal its existence or activities. Equaly, it does not feel coerced by the politically correct brigade into conducting any sort of public relations exercise. It is secure enough to do its own thing, and that should be respected.

As to the claim that its members join to "impress" others - what exactly is that claim based upon? Is it inconceivable that its members join this dining club because they simply enjoy the various dinners which the club organises? Those individuals who feel the need to make snide comments about the society presume a right to comment on the private lives of others. As the club has no public function (such as the KK does) surely they should be permitted, in a pluralistic and multi-cultural society, to continue their activities - in private. People have a right to associate and not associate with whomsoever they wish. It is hardly reasonable to expect everybody to assicate with everybody.

After all, what consenting adults choose to do in private...

[Anonymous]

it does meet, and though i am no member, I did go to one dinner, its pretty good fun, lots of toasts to the queen, british dependent states, then every does their own toast. Lots of port. Really good fun, and the speakers are the best part of it, completely mad views which some people look on in horror, but taken in the right spirit it is far more interesting to listen to radical views than simply the same old boring rubbish. Ask Tom Plant about it as he knows more than me.

[Al]

To first anonymous - Jesus, lighten up. It was a joke. As anyone who wasn't paranoid could have seen. As for the fun and frolics mentioned by the second anonymous - it hardly seems worth it if all you get to eat is toast. And toast you have to make yourself at that. What a fine meal to be eaten. Burnt bread. Marvellous.

[Emma]

Um, I knew because the guy in the room next to my boyfriend last year was (or wanted to be) a member. I don't know anything about it really except that a) it's all male b) they don't do public events a la KK and thus i don't have a problem with them and c) i don't really know what they do. Does that make it a bit clearer to you?

[Marco Biagi]

They are just a group of people who get together with slightly outlandish political views and then get drunk.

Sort of like Young Conservatives.

Some people have described them as the secret group that really runs St Andrews, with the KK just being there to catch the flak.

But that's probably just paranoia.

Yes, they exist - but Strafford is as harmless as any other group of students who meet regularly.

[Anonymous]

So, Marco and Emma, let me get this right. You're happy with an all-male society as long as it only looks after itself and doesn't put on public events. Yet as soon as an all-male society invites anybody to its events you suddenly get all moralistic saying that it is sexist for such a club to exist (I remember you saying that about the KK in the KK debate recently). Do you have any principles? Either you are against all-male societies or you're not. How you can make allowances for some and not others simply beggars belief and just confirms how little you truly understand about the issue. Maybe you should think before you happily splash your drivel over this website.

[Al]

I think that the reason that Marco, Emma and the 1892 society (plus others) object to the KK is not because of its all-male nature but because it chooses to operate in a semi-public capacity. If it was only a private member's club which met to talk, drink, eat whatever then there wouldn't be a problem. However, it chooses to organise events within the university and wider community and promotes itself as some sort of keeper of university traditions. None of the things the KK does are dependent on it being men only. If it wants to remain an all male club, fine - they should give up their social/community role. If they won't to this then they should admit women. As the Strafford Club is only a private club with no public role the same objections do not apply.

[Marco Biagi]

Whoever 'Al' is, he/she seems to have summed it up fairly nicely.

I don't want this to turn into YET ANOTHER discussion about KK on this board, but I do need to reply personally.

Imagine there were, say, 659 men who regularly met.

If those 659 men met, called themselves 'The Westminster Warblers' and drank behind closed doors until they became paralytic, there wouldn't be a problem. How could there be a problem?

However, if those 659 men met, called themselves 'the House of Commons' and made all the laws in front of TV cameras, there would be a very big problem.



Oh, and please forget that KK debate - I've tried hard to. Mixing the common cold, painkillers and my first contribution in an LPH debate was not a good idea. Most of what I said was total gibberish.

[Marco Biagi]

And one thing I want to flag in what Al wrote is the view that there are people outside 1892 that have similar views of KK. I'm sure there are. But that's a bad thing.

I would ideally like to see everyone who is opposed to KK discrimination united by 1892. OK, so it isn't likely to happen immediately.

But we're not all "long-haired left wing activists". A disturbing number are not left-wing at all. And some of us aren't long-haired any more.

Anyway, I digress.

I just want to avoid a situation like:
'Opposers of KK unite - you have nothing to lose but your credibility.'

[Emma]

Anonymous anti-'drivel' person, who I'm guessing is male - I really don't give a tinker's toss what people do behind closed doors. You can sit around and get drunk with whomsoever you might choose. I respect the private realm. But I refuse to allow any organisation that I would like to join to ban me on grounds of gender. Yes, I object to the KKC as having a public role. By aiming to help town-gown relations, raise money for charity and represent the university they sorely fail by excluding women. I don't like my University being 'represented' by an all-male club. Funnily enough, as a woman I don't feel particularly 'represented'.

Women can create their own Strafford club. We can come along to debates dinners, which are a bit like the dinners described. But we cannot recreate the KK. Separate is not equal.

[Anonymous]

Is the Westoun society still running, it seems even more interesting as no one knows anything about it and yet you still bump into a couple of people who have said they went to one...

[Tom Plant]

Again, we hear the prevailing moral that men's clubs are fine as long as they do nothing.

The Strafford, as far as I'm concerned, is a bit of fun, where like minded 'gentlemen' (well, at least we try) have good food and booze in each other's company. And we're not all Tories - although I must concede that, unlike in the KK, most are. Well, it takes all sorts!

[novium]

just a thought on all male clubs:
if they're going to plan balls, they should at least consult women. Because I don't think any girl in her right mind would have expected everyone (Especially the women) to stand all night....

If they aren't planning events, I could really care less if they want to be all male.... well, it's their loss

[hr]

I will show you fear in a handful of dust

[Wakka Wakka]

Thread no. 382 of "Marco Biagi's Greatest Hits."

At least he's left the Uni now... thank god.

[flarewearer]

Quoting Marco Biagi from 21:27, 6th Aug 2001
They are just a group of people who get together with slightly outlandish political views and then get drunk.

Sort of like Young Conservatives.[/i]

or young socialists / marxists / nationalists / *insert reactionary left wingers here* ?

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