2 points i wish to raise...
1. I know oli previewed the fagnolia colour, but I didn't think he would really go for it?
2. For the last couple of days, www.thesinner.co.uk was a page about house maintainence. Did this happen anyone else, or was it just my DNS server?
Apologies for the inflammatory nature of this post, I'm sure we'll all get used to the colour scheme...it's certainly a bit easier on the eyes.
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What happened to the sinner?
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Re:
by I say on Fri Nov 14, 2003 2:45 am
do you people not read anything on this site?
http://www.thesinner.co.uk/messageboard ... hread=6379
i think it's pretty clear what has happened. the admin has explained it (more than once on that thread, iirc).
for goodness sake people, THINK before you start writing. or simply THINK.
http://www.thesinner.co.uk/messageboard ... hread=6379
i think it's pretty clear what has happened. the admin has explained it (more than once on that thread, iirc).
for goodness sake people, THINK before you start writing. or simply THINK.
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I say
Re:
by I say on Fri Nov 14, 2003 2:50 am
And as for the colour change - did you offer your opinion during the redesign? did you suggest an alternative, or offer to help in any way?
i have no way of knowing, but I suspect that most of the people who criticise the Sinner (yet still continue to use it) won't be happy, whatever happens.
Everything's subjective, and although not everyone will like the new design (I think it's okay, but it will take a while to get used to), we were given plenty of chance to help out and offer our comments during the process.
thesinner seems to be pretty popular at the moment, and i don't know how much it costs to run, but seeing as it's free for everyone to use, I reckon the admin has a pretty tough job keeping it runngin.
i have no way of knowing, but I suspect that most of the people who criticise the Sinner (yet still continue to use it) won't be happy, whatever happens.
Everything's subjective, and although not everyone will like the new design (I think it's okay, but it will take a while to get used to), we were given plenty of chance to help out and offer our comments during the process.
thesinner seems to be pretty popular at the moment, and i don't know how much it costs to run, but seeing as it's free for everyone to use, I reckon the admin has a pretty tough job keeping it runngin.
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I say
Re:
by pigeon on Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:45 pm
[s]I say wrote on 02:50, 14th Nov 2003:
And as for the colour change - did you offer your opinion during the redesign? did you suggest an alternative,.... but seeing as it's free for everyone to use, I reckon the admin has a pretty tough job keeping it runngin.
A lot of people did in fact voice that opinion, and most websites, forums certainly, are free. Please stop using the "pretty tough job" argumment. This is not the only message board in the world, and I'd be surprised if there weren't more than a few people who have done similar jobs before or continue to do so now.
Like I said many people did offer their opinion, these people were ignored so now why bother? The site was much better in design terms before with the new features being okay, but the colours are bad and the layout more squashed than before. The message board index page looks elementary at best.
And for goodness sake don't say i'd like to see you do better. That eventuality will not happen but the answer would be yeah I probably could. More importantly there are probably some who could do even better. And more importantly than that why doesn't Oli do better himself? He's a web designer after all so why stick with this design? If a complete change is needed write a completely new template. If it's just the colour then change it - not everyone likes it as it is not a neutral enough scheme. Someone elsewhere suggested a blue theme, maybe not original but certainly more of a crowd pleaser.
And as for the colour change - did you offer your opinion during the redesign? did you suggest an alternative,.... but seeing as it's free for everyone to use, I reckon the admin has a pretty tough job keeping it runngin.
A lot of people did in fact voice that opinion, and most websites, forums certainly, are free. Please stop using the "pretty tough job" argumment. This is not the only message board in the world, and I'd be surprised if there weren't more than a few people who have done similar jobs before or continue to do so now.
Like I said many people did offer their opinion, these people were ignored so now why bother? The site was much better in design terms before with the new features being okay, but the colours are bad and the layout more squashed than before. The message board index page looks elementary at best.
And for goodness sake don't say i'd like to see you do better. That eventuality will not happen but the answer would be yeah I probably could. More importantly there are probably some who could do even better. And more importantly than that why doesn't Oli do better himself? He's a web designer after all so why stick with this design? If a complete change is needed write a completely new template. If it's just the colour then change it - not everyone likes it as it is not a neutral enough scheme. Someone elsewhere suggested a blue theme, maybe not original but certainly more of a crowd pleaser.
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pigeon
Re:
by Kibet on Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:13 pm
from previous arguments it always tends to be
"your changing the polls to often"
then it's
"your not changing the polls often enough"
now it's
"the background colour was better as it was before"
as for saying the sinner message board index looks elementary. that can be read as more user friendly.
i personally don't want a fancy website just for messageboards, i would get confused and lost. nobody ever complains about real life posterboards being browny in colour.
i first went gah when i looked at the colour but now i have got used to it and find it easier on the eyes.
if you look at the two relevant posts on this earlier, it is a split on the change. people will soon come to favour this colour and if thackary changed the colour back then there would be another outcry much like this one.
i do miss the she-devilhiding behind the message board, but it's ok i have the fond fond memories.
final point, i am able to read and write on this with also other features. So i would like to thank thackary for his work, keep it up
"your changing the polls to often"
then it's
"your not changing the polls often enough"
now it's
"the background colour was better as it was before"
as for saying the sinner message board index looks elementary. that can be read as more user friendly.
i personally don't want a fancy website just for messageboards, i would get confused and lost. nobody ever complains about real life posterboards being browny in colour.
i first went gah when i looked at the colour but now i have got used to it and find it easier on the eyes.
if you look at the two relevant posts on this earlier, it is a split on the change. people will soon come to favour this colour and if thackary changed the colour back then there would be another outcry much like this one.
i do miss the she-devilhiding behind the message board, but it's ok i have the fond fond memories.
final point, i am able to read and write on this with also other features. So i would like to thank thackary for his work, keep it up
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Kibet
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Re:
by pigeon on Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:02 pm
[s]Kibet wrote on 16:13, 14th Nov 2003:
now it's
"the background colour was better as it was before"
Indeed it was, which is not to say it was a good colour scheme either but it was better than this one. I am bemused as to why after asking for opinions and finding that a significant number of people disliked it (ie roughly half) it has still been implemented.
as for saying the sinner message board index looks elementary. that can be read as more user friendly.
No. User friendly can still look good. The message board index is elementary in that it is not fitted to the page well enough, it does not extend down long enough, the boxes in the table are too small, the text especially on the right hand side of the index is far too big, and the margins too small. That is to say, it does not look good.
i personally don't want a fancy website just for messageboards,
A fancy website is not required, just one that looks good and appeals to a wide variety of people. This is the first message board I have come across where so many people dislike the colour scheme. Usually the admin would try out a few if this was the case, which is hardly time consuming.
people will soon come to favour this colour and if thackary changed the colour back then there would be another outcry much like this one.
No one says to change it back necessarily, just change it from this colour and tidy up the design to make it look less confused and again, elementary.
I have no doubt that the site has been worked on with great time and effort but having said that so has near every ohter site on the internet. If the BBC site went all brown and made half the users go "eww" I'm sure it would be changed pretty swiftly. And the excuse of "oh but we worked hard" would not cut the mustard.
I really don't see what the problem is, it's not hard to tidy up a site (seeing as the actual design has apparently gone unchanged) and it certainly isn't difficult to change a colour scheme. The Sinner aims to appeal to the maximum number of students it can so surely the colours should also try and appeal to the maximum number of people?
now it's
"the background colour was better as it was before"
Indeed it was, which is not to say it was a good colour scheme either but it was better than this one. I am bemused as to why after asking for opinions and finding that a significant number of people disliked it (ie roughly half) it has still been implemented.
as for saying the sinner message board index looks elementary. that can be read as more user friendly.
No. User friendly can still look good. The message board index is elementary in that it is not fitted to the page well enough, it does not extend down long enough, the boxes in the table are too small, the text especially on the right hand side of the index is far too big, and the margins too small. That is to say, it does not look good.
i personally don't want a fancy website just for messageboards,
A fancy website is not required, just one that looks good and appeals to a wide variety of people. This is the first message board I have come across where so many people dislike the colour scheme. Usually the admin would try out a few if this was the case, which is hardly time consuming.
people will soon come to favour this colour and if thackary changed the colour back then there would be another outcry much like this one.
No one says to change it back necessarily, just change it from this colour and tidy up the design to make it look less confused and again, elementary.
I have no doubt that the site has been worked on with great time and effort but having said that so has near every ohter site on the internet. If the BBC site went all brown and made half the users go "eww" I'm sure it would be changed pretty swiftly. And the excuse of "oh but we worked hard" would not cut the mustard.
I really don't see what the problem is, it's not hard to tidy up a site (seeing as the actual design has apparently gone unchanged) and it certainly isn't difficult to change a colour scheme. The Sinner aims to appeal to the maximum number of students it can so surely the colours should also try and appeal to the maximum number of people?
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pigeon
Re:
by Al on Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:25 pm
All you are saying, once your false reasoning and sophistry have been stripped away, is "I don't like it - it should be changed" and that is that. Stop trying to make your personal dislike into some sort of pro-consumer crusade. It isn't fooling anyone.
And besides, if roughly half of the people dislike (although I am not sure on what information you base that particular assertion) the new look then it follows that roughly half either like it or don't have an opinion one way or the other. And I find it hard to believe that people having no opinion could ever be the case on The Sinner.
[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.
And besides, if roughly half of the people dislike (although I am not sure on what information you base that particular assertion) the new look then it follows that roughly half either like it or don't have an opinion one way or the other. And I find it hard to believe that people having no opinion could ever be the case on The Sinner.
[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.
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Al
- Posts: 3992
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Re:
by Rrrr on Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:07 pm
[s]Unregisted User pigeon wrote on 17:56, 14th Nov 2003:
blah blah blah
Is it entirely necessary you use this site?
Can you not live without it?
Would it's abscence from your life change your life in any real way that matters?
NO?
Then if you don't like it, naf off!
If it is so unappealing, don't look at it!
I can't watch people on telly eating bugs and things, it disgusts me. So I don't watch it.
There are other message boards that can provide you with entertainment, there is even another that can provide you information on St Andrews, so if you don't like this one because some changes have been made go away and don't use this website.
[hr]
"If you see a seven foot goose with trainers and a shotgun, avoid it!"
blah blah blah
Is it entirely necessary you use this site?
Can you not live without it?
Would it's abscence from your life change your life in any real way that matters?
NO?
Then if you don't like it, naf off!
If it is so unappealing, don't look at it!
I can't watch people on telly eating bugs and things, it disgusts me. So I don't watch it.
There are other message boards that can provide you with entertainment, there is even another that can provide you information on St Andrews, so if you don't like this one because some changes have been made go away and don't use this website.
[hr]
"If you see a seven foot goose with trainers and a shotgun, avoid it!"
[b:7vpvjwv1]Splat![/b:7vpvjwv1]
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Rrrr
- Posts: 841
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Re:
by Pussycat on Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:22 pm
First people complained because those who didn't like the site gave no reasons for not liking it. Now those who back up their opinions are similarly told off.
The site does still require some tidying up, no one is demanding it be done now, for most websites it is an ongoing process.
Some people didn't like the colour before, some don't like it now. It doesn't mean those people should shut up, and some of them have even suggested alternative colour schemes. Most websites are ever evolving so I don't see why those who offer advice and question things should be told to quieten down.
The Sinner is a popular site, surely we should always be looking for more ways to improve it and more ways to attract a broader spectrum of people. Telling them to go and use other sites, hinting at Statalk no doubt, is not very friendly. The people at that other site have become increasingly rude, especially towards suspected users of this site, to the point where they tell people to go away. I was rather hoping this site would not follow a similar path.
The site does still require some tidying up, no one is demanding it be done now, for most websites it is an ongoing process.
Some people didn't like the colour before, some don't like it now. It doesn't mean those people should shut up, and some of them have even suggested alternative colour schemes. Most websites are ever evolving so I don't see why those who offer advice and question things should be told to quieten down.
The Sinner is a popular site, surely we should always be looking for more ways to improve it and more ways to attract a broader spectrum of people. Telling them to go and use other sites, hinting at Statalk no doubt, is not very friendly. The people at that other site have become increasingly rude, especially towards suspected users of this site, to the point where they tell people to go away. I was rather hoping this site would not follow a similar path.
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Pussycat
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Re:
by LeopardSkinQueen on Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:26 pm
A choice of skins at some point would be muchly appreciated- colour schemes are, after all, a matter of personal taste.
May I suggest a leopard print skin?
[hr][s]"Surely a young man like you has needs, Mister Kenobi. American Express can pay for them."
"Will it pay for dancing boys?"
http://www.siubhan.com/sithacademy/frame.html
[/s]
May I suggest a leopard print skin?
[hr][s]"Surely a young man like you has needs, Mister Kenobi. American Express can pay for them."
"Will it pay for dancing boys?"
http://www.siubhan.com/sithacademy/frame.html
[/s]
[i:1wp3kko0]Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew
Come out and round up everyone that knows more than they do
[/i:1wp3kko0]
Come out and round up everyone that knows more than they do
[/i:1wp3kko0]
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LeopardSkinQueen
- Posts: 2081
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Re:
by Al on Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:45 pm
"I don't see why those who offer advice and question things should be told to quieten down.
True - as long as they are honestly expressing a personal opinion and not trying to make it seem as if they are the spokesperson for a new movement. Unless, of course, they *are* the spokesperson for a new movement.
"The Sinner is a popular site, surely we should always be looking for more ways to improve it and more ways to attract a broader spectrum of people. Telling them to go and use other sites, hinting at Statalk no doubt, is not very friendly. The people at that other site have become increasingly rude, especially towards suspected users of this site, to the point where they tell people to go away. I was rather hoping this site would not follow a similar path."
True again. Besides, the more people that are here, the more people I can talk down to.
Everyone's happy then.
[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.
True - as long as they are honestly expressing a personal opinion and not trying to make it seem as if they are the spokesperson for a new movement. Unless, of course, they *are* the spokesperson for a new movement.
"The Sinner is a popular site, surely we should always be looking for more ways to improve it and more ways to attract a broader spectrum of people. Telling them to go and use other sites, hinting at Statalk no doubt, is not very friendly. The people at that other site have become increasingly rude, especially towards suspected users of this site, to the point where they tell people to go away. I was rather hoping this site would not follow a similar path."
True again. Besides, the more people that are here, the more people I can talk down to.
Everyone's happy then.
[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.
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Al
- Posts: 3992
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Re:
by TheGamesMaster on Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:00 pm
The changes being made to the sinner are being phased over time, rather than all at once.
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TheGamesMaster
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Re:
by pigeon on Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:17 pm
[s]Al wrote on 17:25, 15th Nov 2003:
All you are saying, once your false reasoning and sophistry have been stripped away, is "I don't like it - it should be changed" and that is that. Stop trying to make your personal dislike into some sort of pro-consumer crusade. It isn't fooling anyone.
I don't see why you say that. The point is that I don't like it and unlike others I have given my reasons. The recurring argument that those who say they dislike it have no reasons to back up their dislike is pathetic. Opinions were asked for and given, and then ignored.
Why so touchy about the suggestion that it isn't that hard to change it anyway? Only the colour scheme and some formatting has been changed so it's no big deal. And why, if there are things wrong with some of the formatting (which there is) are we not allowed to point it out?
The attitude of telling those who dislike it to shut up is hardly productive. And if half of people do dislike it (a figure suggested by someone else based on opinions given in another thread) then that is a siginificant percentage. If these people are to be ignored then say so. If it is not possible to do the easy task of tidying up a site, something every designer does, or to change the colour scheme, something that takes less than half an hour, then say so. But I find it hard to believe that any credible web designer would be unable to achieve this or would be too proud to change their design to appeal to more people.
All you are saying, once your false reasoning and sophistry have been stripped away, is "I don't like it - it should be changed" and that is that. Stop trying to make your personal dislike into some sort of pro-consumer crusade. It isn't fooling anyone.
I don't see why you say that. The point is that I don't like it and unlike others I have given my reasons. The recurring argument that those who say they dislike it have no reasons to back up their dislike is pathetic. Opinions were asked for and given, and then ignored.
Why so touchy about the suggestion that it isn't that hard to change it anyway? Only the colour scheme and some formatting has been changed so it's no big deal. And why, if there are things wrong with some of the formatting (which there is) are we not allowed to point it out?
The attitude of telling those who dislike it to shut up is hardly productive. And if half of people do dislike it (a figure suggested by someone else based on opinions given in another thread) then that is a siginificant percentage. If these people are to be ignored then say so. If it is not possible to do the easy task of tidying up a site, something every designer does, or to change the colour scheme, something that takes less than half an hour, then say so. But I find it hard to believe that any credible web designer would be unable to achieve this or would be too proud to change their design to appeal to more people.
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pigeon
Re:
by Greebo on Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:43 pm
[s]Unregisted User pigeon wrote on 17:59, 15th Nov 2003:
I don't see why you say that. The point is that I don't like it and unlike others I have given my reasons. The recurring argument that those who say they dislike it have no reasons to back up their dislike is pathetic. Opinions were asked for and given, and then ignored.
Who says they were ignored? Just because it was changed to what some people don't like doesn't mean their opinions were ignored, it just means more people liked it than disliked it.
[hr]
http://greebopichost.netfirms.com - Loadsa drunken photos and suchlikes.
I don't see why you say that. The point is that I don't like it and unlike others I have given my reasons. The recurring argument that those who say they dislike it have no reasons to back up their dislike is pathetic. Opinions were asked for and given, and then ignored.
Who says they were ignored? Just because it was changed to what some people don't like doesn't mean their opinions were ignored, it just means more people liked it than disliked it.
[hr]
http://greebopichost.netfirms.com - Loadsa drunken photos and suchlikes.
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Greebo
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