60+ students occupy uni building in protest

[Garnet]

I can't say that I wholeheartedly agree with all the demands being made, but I applaud the fact that people are willing to take clear action to support a cause in which they quite clearly passionately believe. It may go some way towards shaking off the apparent apathy of students towards political and social issues; not just those that are perhaps far away which, while they do not directly impact us, should still enrage us (epidemics, war and famine in Africa, human rights abuses round the world), but also those which DO impact the students here. The ever-rising costs of accommodation and the university's plans to eliminate a large number of their affordable beds would have produced all sorts of protest and action in the 60s or 70s. And now? We have a small number of people actively protesting, and some other people have joined a Facebook group in support... The 'non-active radical' who posted above seems a perfect case in point.

I despair for the social conscience of students. Maybe there are just too many rich students here, secure in the knowledge that whatever happens to tuition costs and rents, Mummy and Daddy will keep them in the manner to which they have become accustomed.

I cannot see any other response but to applaud people who have beliefs and who are willing to stand up for them and make their case known. Because the protest is non-violent, any debate about whether their methods are wise or suitable is nothing more than misplaced aesthetic sensibility, and is ignoring the real issue.

While it's great for people not to be apathetic about conflicts I guess I wonder if there is a need for it, if it will actually help their aims, or if it's not just copying what other universities have done or a we're students-let's protest-it'll be fun view. Also the petition hasn't been handed in yet so it's not like the Uni has rejected it. I suppose this way if the uni does accept some of the demands like having a collection then the protesters can say they made it happen. Maybe i'm just being cynical.

[What?]

Do they appreciate the irony of occupying territory to support Palestine?

That made me chuckle. They probably don't.

What obligation does the University have to provide them with electricity, heat and toilet facilities? At the very least I hope those concerned are billed for it, as I don't want what the Scottish Executive pays for my tuition to pay for it.

I hope Eduroam isn't turned off in the Quad...how will I go on the Sinner in lectures otherwise??

[RedCelt69]

Pretty sure that they do appreciate the irony. Hence them spelling out "OCCUPIED" across the windows.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with their views (I do), it's just damned refreshing to see students acting like... well, students. In other countries, students have brought the government to their knees at various points in history - or at least made the government take serious notice of unpopular policies. Whilst I have no expectations that this demonstration will have any effect on... well, anything... it is a well-meaning (if quaint) voicing of a political view. Something more students could do with emulating.

[RedCelt69]

I think that if I awoke tomorrow to the story that 60 students had been killed by the SAS breaking a seige, my first reaction would be to laugh. Obviously, after the realisation that 60 people had been murdered came to me, I would be horrified, but it'd still be funny at the start.

Yes.

[Al]

This protest will achieve nothing to aid the people of Gaza. I doubt that Israel will be brought to its knees should the University of St Andrews cave in to the demands of those heroic students manning the barricades by sleeping over at LCH. And given the people involved, it will probably not help students when they are campaigning for something that actually matters in St Andrews. Like lower accommodation costs. How long will it be until the university sees that the people involved in this "occupation" are the same people involved in the Lower Rents Coalition and decides that it can safely write off all their activities as troublemaking?

[exnihilo]

Though, on the other hand, I hope this "protest" goes on for a good long time and the idiots who are involved end up missing enough classes to get hoofed off their course. I certainly hope that other groups with bees in their bonnets don't take RedCelt's advice and emulate this in the future, because that can only lead to the university hiring more security, becoming more restrictive and more hostile towards the students - just what's needed.

[creepy old man]

"We stand in solidarity with the persecuted Palestinian people, and call upon our university to join the international community in condemning Israel's criminal actions in the occupied territories."

I can understand why some people might say that the university shouldn't support Israel in any way. But why does the university need to condemn Israel, or to declare support for Palestinians? Personally if the decision was left up to me I'd say the university should not be supporting either side. If individual students or societies wish to support or aid certain people(s), then that's fine, but I don't think it's really the responsibility of the university to get involved in conflicts occurring in a completely different country. Personally I feel really bad about what has happened in Gaza and other Palestinian communities, and I guess I'm more pro-Israel than pro-Palestinian, but I'm not really attached to either camp, and I don't see why a partisan position should be taken by the entire university. If I were Israeli, and studying here in St Andrews, I'd be pretty offended by an official university stance 'in solidarity with the persecuted Palestinian people, and [in condemnation of] Israel's criminal actions.'

As for student protest here in St Andrews, I think that it's wrong to be cynical about the student body as a whole. It's true that lots of people are inactive and don't speak out about things they believe in. Protests here are not very well attended. Personally I think that this is due to the non-inclusive nature of the groups that organise these events. I know they mean well, but I find that several activist groups here tend to be extremely cliquey. I was an activist for a lot of causes, and attended countless protests of various kinds before coming to St Andrews. It was an important part of my life, which I intend to resume fully once I leave this town. Now that I'm here I don't bother attending anything like that because the environment is so exclusive, self-congratulatory and frustratingly ideological. It seems that people like protesting because they like the idea of reliving the 60's and feeling righteous. I know there's more to it than that, but it often doesn't appear that way, at least not at the events I have attended here. *Note that this has no direct connection with the specific protest in this thread, just a general response to some of the other responses here.

[irish200]

Are they still there? Can we not get together and form a counterattack while they sleep?

[munchingfoo]

That would be amazing. I have some BB guns and gas masks. Shall we?

[Duggeh]

Would anyone like to set up a counter organisation? Not ideological against their aims, but against their methods? Our manifesto could be to protest against illegal squatters or something.

[777]

Would anyone like to set up a counter organisation? Not ideological against their aims, but against their methods? Our manifesto could be to protest against illegal squatters or something.

Occupy Upper College Hall?

[irish200]

CHARGE!

[777]

Having looked at the "occupation" photos on flickr, they hardly look riveted do they?

[RedCelt69]

I certainly hope that other groups with bees in their bonnets don't take RedCelt's advice and emulate this in the future

You're young but once. You have the rest of your life to conform. Rebelling and taking up lost causes should be a requirement of student life. The only thing worse than growing older and selling out your youthful ideals... is to have never had any ideals to sell out in the first place.

[RandomMusings]

Shouldn't the University just call the police to remove them?

Call the SAS to remove them. Attention-seeking know-it-alls.

Smoke them out......

In truth though, I think there are a number of good points made in this thread - particularly Frank's earliest post (and indeed the father ted photo - a reoccuring theme I see). Al also makes a point that I am equally concerned about - the risk this action jeapodises (spelling) future requests made to the university on the issues that concern us - its current students. I'm all for fairness and right across the world - but I feel there is little direct impact or indeed good that this action can gain (a little like the symbolic action taken against Mugabe a year or so ago).
I must admit, I did sign the petition - in the main due to the eden springs issue which we voted on in the SRC a fair while back and I was a little taken-aback that this was still an issue. Now though, I'm unsure about the symbolic nature of this action too. Up to a point constructive - but soon becomes tired and irrelevent in the mains unfortunately. My own opinion only mind........

[Alan1]

I love the fact that in this thread someone has pointed out the fact that THE OCCUPATATION of LCH is a step forward for the Israeli Palestine conflict. I believe the demands are an embarrassment to the university as a whole. I do not understand why this conflict is different to any other conflict at present regarding the demands. I completely agree that the Palestinians have had a rough time but why do they deserve 10 FULL INTERNATIONAL SCHOLARSHIPS compared to potential bright students in countries such as Afghanistan, Iraq, Tibet etc. Since tuition top up fees were introduced in the UK many students can not afford the right to higher education in the UK with little or no scholarships offered by our university. I noticed that people were collecting money outside the library for Gaza. I completely support this and have donated money myself to the cause but wasting time protesting against Israeli policy in LCH is ridiculous and most of the protestors have not collected any money as it is much cooler just to protest against everything else (STOP THE WAR). I believe many people who signed the partition have been fooled. I know many friends who have been added to Left Soc’s mailing list because of this. If any of the demands of STOP THE WAR have been met I will start a personal campaign against this. I believe that the majority of students have not signed this partition and they do not speak for the majority of the student population.

[Dissappointed With Humanity]

Zimbabwe is in destitute right now because of the gross negligence of its government. Unlike the Israel-Arab conflict, one of the most complex in history, with Zimbabwe there is a clear, identifiable problem: Robert Mugabe's administration. I'd have thought that university students looking for a cause to fill the giant void in their lives would have pursued the one in Zimbabwe, as it is an atrocity, the effects of which can, with infinitely more certainty than the Israel-Arab conflict, be attributed to its cause.

Dress it up all you want: people love an excuse to hate Jews and blacks.

[Humphrey]

Anyone remember Farfour the Hamas mouse?. His stuff is still on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZEGsnWZKh8

Sadly he was slaughtered by the infidels and his slot has been taken by Nahoul the bee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrieBhaG ... re=related

Woah, I am behind the times!. Nahoul the bee has died, because the zionist oppressors prevented him from getting treatment for some unspecified giant bee disease. He has been replaced by Assud, the giant Jew-eating rabbit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeii225G ... re=related

Much better than Blue Peter.

[Well]

Well it worked in Edinburgh,

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Stude ... 4986682.jp

[exnihilo]

I certainly hope that other groups with bees in their bonnets don't take RedCelt's advice and emulate this in the future

You're young but once. You have the rest of your life to conform. Rebelling and taking up lost causes should be a requirement of student life. The only thing worse than growing older and selling out your youthful ideals... is to have never had any ideals to sell out in the first place.

Ah, yes, that claptrap. Heard it before.