War With Iraq

[Rennie]

And, i wanted the 300th thread

[Cola Cube]

Wasn't the difficulty with the Vietam war due to the fact that Vietnam is spread over small islands that are very easy to defend and incredibly difficult to attack?

Whereas Iraq is a giant sandpit.

[Rennie]

Sandpits aren't easy to attack, especially when your guns and tanks stop working due to the heat

[splittter]

[s]Cola Cube wrote on 12:59, 21st Feb 2003:
Wasn't the difficulty with the Vietam war due to the fact that Vietnam is spread over small islands that are very easy to defend and incredibly difficult to attack?


well thats what they told dub'ya I imagine ... funny stuff

[Cola Cube]

[s]Rennie wrote on 14:07, 21st Feb 2003:
Sandpits aren't easy to attack, especially when your guns and tanks stop working due to the heat


Yes but it makes it easier to bomb specific targets.

And as for Vietnam, it's not what Bush said, it's what most historians and army tacticians will tell you. It's also incredibly obvious if you have any georaphical knowledge.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

The problem with Vietnam was pretty simple - it was a conventional army trying to take on a guerilla force who had no big staging area, had good knowledge of the country, were supported by the local people and were getting about 10 times as much in the way of weapons and supplies from the Soviets.

Contrary to the prevailing belief of the US - bombing a target repeatedly does not lead to military success all the time.

[RRankin]

To be fair to the US, I think they've learnt how to deal with gurilla war fare now. And unlike vietnam, there isn't a prevailing political ideology or neighbouring country pushing it. There are just alot of people who probably don't want Mr Hussein, and once americas finished and secured the oil it'll leave them to squabble while making it look like they're doing something to help (a bit of aid here and there and a few photo oppertunites with the new President)... Whats going on in Afghanistan by the way? Wheres that glorious new democracy?

Lets face it, the only country Iraq is a threat to is Israel. Frankly thats America and Israel's problem, I don't see why we should be paying to help defend it when the palestinian problem is still unsolved and the uman rights abuses on both sides are so terrible. Mr Blair should leave it to the UN and get on with sorting the impending economic crisis.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

If the US think that they've learned how to deal with guerilla warfare - then they've learned nothing at all.

It's just a fact that even a standing army as big and advanced as America's is inherently at a disadvantage against a guerilla force. Much like the war against terror - you don't know where the enemy is, so you can't go a knockin'

[splittter]

[s]Cola Cube wrote on 16:37, 21st Feb 2003:
And as for Vietnam, it's not what Bush said, it's what most historians and army tacticians will tell you. It's also incredibly obvious if you have any georaphical knowledge.


guess this map is a cruel hoax then

http://www.asiatravel.com/vietmap.html

small islands my ass

[Mike]

Do you really believe that the Iraq situation is about oil and that it is not your problem?

[Carrie MN]

[s]Prophet Tenebrae wrote on 23:05, 30th Aug 2002:
Outside of America Tony Blair seems to be the only person in the world that wants to go to war with Iraq, shame he's running the country and that the Prime Minister happens to have the power to go to war without asking parliment (if I recall correctly). So bit of a worry, eh? Especially as our armed forces suck.


NOT TRUE!!! I live here in Minnesota and you ask every American on the street, and they'll tell you how terrified they are of going to war. Basically everyone opposes it and President Bush is using propaganda and scare tactics such as the "terror alert system" to further his sick desire for revenge

[Cola Cube]

[s]Unregisted User splittter wrote on 16:55, 21st Feb 2003:

small islands my ass


There are actually nearly 4,00 small and large islands.

The fact remains that the terrain of Vietnam is one of the main reasons why the war was stretched out.The terrain restricted movement of troops and supplies. The Mekong River flooded the coastal plain of the south, monsoons dumped at least 100 inches of rain over most of the country. Roads between major cities became like foot paths.

The unfamiliar terrain and conditions in Vietnam made life very difficult for the US forces. The intense heat made it difficult for them to see where they were going, carry weapons and move swiftly. Much of Vietnam was covered in jungle, swamp and paddy fields, terrain that was unsuitable for tanks. This led to an increase in the use of helicopters as troop carriers and heavy goods vehicles for moving guns, vehicles, ammunition, supplies and boats across jungles and hills.

The helicopters played a great part in the Search and Destroy Missions carried out by the US forces. But because of this, helicopters added to the already tremendous cost of the war. Their control of the air also accounted for little as it was difficult for them to see through the dense jungle, meaning that they were unable to see exactly who they were killing.

That would be my point.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Arnie did pretty well in Predator though...

[Cola Cube]

No one can beat him.

[RRankin]

[s]Unregisted User Mike wrote on 00:21, 22nd Feb 2003:
Do you really believe that the Iraq situation is about oil and that it is not your problem?


Why should we police the world? We caused many of these problems in the first place. I doubt we're any more prepared to put Iraq right than any time in the past, we're just making more trouble for the future. Maybe if the only reason to go to war was to help the people of iraq it would work. But its about oil, winning elections, defending countries which have questionable human rights themselves, and a hell of alot of ego trips. I don't think thats a good enough reason for going into a notriously fragile region of the world with all guns blazing.

(p.s. I think they'll easily win this war and get rid of Saddam Hussein, but I think they'll just create another mess for people to deal with in another 10 to 50 yrs time. What plans have they come up wioth for a post war Iraq? The don't even know what to do with afghanistan yet.)

[Oddball]

[s]RRankin wrote on 17:52, 22nd Feb 2003:
[s]Unregisted User Mike wrote on 00:21, 22nd Feb 2003:[i]
Do you really believe that the Iraq situation is about oil and that it is not your problem?


Why should we police the world? We caused many of these problems in the first place. I doubt we're any more prepared to put Iraq right than any time in the past, we're just making more trouble for the future. Maybe if the only reason to go to war was to help the people of iraq it would work. But its about oil, winning elections, defending countries which have questionable human rights themselves, and a hell of alot of ego trips. I don't think thats a good enough reason for going into a notriously fragile region of the world with all guns blazing.

(p.s. I think they'll easily win this war and get rid of Saddam Hussein, but I think they'll just create another mess for people to deal with in another 10 to 50 yrs time. What plans have they come up wioth for a post war Iraq? The don't even know what to do with afghanistan yet.)
[/i]

If as you argue America has caused some of these problems during the cold war, would it not be better to try to undo some of the damage?

Once America Has removed Saddam, it will also be the responsibility of the Iraqi people to ensure that they become a stable country. Iraq may benefit from Western help, but it will be responsible for its own government.

[Pilmour Boy]

I'm watching "After Dark" on BBC4 at the moment, and it really is by far the best debate I've seen on the war so far.
Well done to the BBC for bringing back this excellent show.


And on a slightly different note, how about we do our own version IRL? We all meet up midweek in a pub/coffee shop and discuss the hell out of it, as it should be able to get our thoughts across.

[Matt]

President Bush is using propaganda and scare tactics such as the "terror alert system" to further his sick desire for revenge
[/i]


President bush using propaganda and scare tactics? Are you out of your simple little mind? Do you have any idea how easy it would be for terrorists to get smallpox from iraq? it has been proven that Iraq has missles that can hit isreal. iraq has several thousand gallons of anthrax as they have had since the early ninties. Do you think, and i know that this is really hard for someone from minnesota to understand, that Saddam will hesitate to use these weapons against isreal. I think not. you have your crazed leaders mixed up here. The enemy is not bush, thats right not, but it is Saddam. If you dont like the way that Bush is running this country move to your beloved Iraq.

[matt]

Sandpits aren't easy to attack, especially when your guns and tanks stop working due to the heat

Back in the gulf war was it any different. and if you simple statement were true we could do the same as we did in the gulf war. using fuel that would soak into the sand and then set it on fire with carpet bombing. Our tanks are the most advanced in the world and i have every confidence in the world that we will continue to defend peace and justice everywhere in the world.

[Durham Bloke]

Forgive me but a friend of mine has just asked the question that must be at the front of all our minds,

"Don't the French notice that they are being bad??"


Fair point.