Why are so many people voting for the Conservatives on the poll?

[Senethro]

Quoting Senethro from 15:55, 14th Apr 2007
whats with all the people invoking science/chemical chance in a non-ironic manner recently

Quoting this because I want to be top of the new page.

[David Bean]

Perhaps you could clarify for us, then, what exactly you think this 'Great Britain Pie' is that Scotland needs to try for 'a bigger share' of? Or why you think Scotland's success in the energy and biotechnological industries should be dependent upon politicians, rather than (for instance) the people who actually work in and run the businesses operating on those sectors? Or what you believe these 'different' values that Scottish people are supposed to have are, and what kind of political system they would lead to the creation of?

Your mind must be a very chaotic place.

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Psalm 91:7

[Senethro]

mr bean didn't anyone tell you to beleive in fairy tales and remember that dreams come true

[Fraser Archibald Wallace]

Quoting David Bean from 15:58, 14th Apr 2007
Perhaps you could clarify for us, then, what exactly you think... Scotland needs to try for?

Your mind must be a very chaotic place.

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Psalm 91:7

The Great Britian Pie, refers to the national revenue of the UK. Of this, Scotland at the moment provides a small surplus. 0.61 billion if you factor in North Sea (90% of)corporation Tax, accorrding to the UK Treasury website. Rich Scots or poor Britons, is the question that should be asked of UK membership when it comes to economic issues. At least, thirty years ago, that was clearly the case. Then, the conservative goverment passed a policy statement stating that the Scottish Indpendence movement should be quashed due to the fact that Englands economy would suffer horrendously if Scotland left.

Nowadays the issue is less clear. Unionists spread fear to keep Scotland in a Union for the reason that Scotland allows the UK goverment to stay in its 'imperial hangover'. The question is not so much on economic matters. The likelyhood is that Scotland would not plumet, nor rocket economically after independence. But we'd be alright. The question now, is whether we wish to tow the line when the UK enters into international incidents we do not want to be part of, or wether we harbour weapons capable of devasatating entire countries. Now, it is more a question of what line we wish to take for ourselves. And the multitude of lines, the infinite facets of every choice that we will make to ensure the best future for ourselves, must be ones tailored to our needs. Not the domineering, imperial notions of a country, dead in comparrison to its previous glory. The recent Iran crisis showed this.

And if you have any doubt over the shadow polititians cast over bio-tech, or indeed other industries, cast a look over to Londons best friend, G. Bush, and his attitudes to the enviroment, and more specifically, his recent presidential veto over stem-cell research.

And as I mentioned above, Scotland is the only place in the UK where you can raise taxes, without losing votes. There are many other diffirent examples of how Scotland feels diffirent. Scotlands national identity, strong as it is today,is another sign- as is SNP support. Which, I gloat to add, is according the the Polls, rising fast and strong.

Mr Bean, apart from your mind seeming like your television counterparts, I'd also like to add that I think you lack charisma, character, and vision and rejoice in the fact at what that says about the rest of the conservatives at St Andrews.

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Scotland shall be free

[Cain]

Quoting Fraser Archibald Wallace from 20:41, 14th Apr 2007
[hr]

Scotland shall be free

In what way is Scotland currently not free?

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I hold an element of surprise

[Fraser Archibald Wallace]

[quote
In what way is Scotland currently not free?

[/quote]

In the way that we have to accept Trident on our shores when a majority of the populace disapprove.

In the way our kin die on shores abroad for oil we don't need- and will keep doing so as long as London dictates which conflicts we enter.

In the way that our ministers cannot administer control over who are our friends, and not on the international scene.

In the way that our economy is limited by legistation that is tailored to a diffirent nations needs?

Did you know, of a trans-European dual carriage way, from Poland to Ireland (the Ferry Crossing to) the only place that isn't dual carriageway is in Scotland, near Castle Douglas?

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Scotland shall be free

[Senethro]

Quoting Senethro from 23:26, 14th Apr 2007

Quoting Fraser Archibald Wallace from 22:10, 14th Apr 2007
[quote
In what way is Scotland currently not free?

In the way that we have to accept Trident on our shores when a majority of the populace disapprove.

This is our own fault really. Noone wants those things and we're the ones least likely to kick up a fuss about it.

In the way our kin die on shores abroad for oil we don't need- and will keep doing so as long as London dictates which conflicts we enter.

This is a British problem, not a Scottish one in particular.

In the way that our ministers cannot administer control over who are our friends, and not on the international scene.

Can't imagine how this would change AT ALL

In the way that our economy is limited by legistation that is tailored to a diffirent nations needs?

Bullseye. This is your one real point. Scotland gets fucked by the tories in favour of the south east because we don't vote for them anyway.

Did you know, of a trans-European dual carriage way, from Poland to Ireland (the Ferry Crossing to) the only place that isn't dual carriageway is in Scotland, near Castle Douglas?

So what? You're clutching at straws now.[/quote]

[exnihilo]

Just on one of those - so in an independent Scotland, we'll have a referendum before going to war?

[Senethro]

o shi reply is not edit


Read the edit
VVVVV

[Iain]

So no-one wants trident? At least in Scotland, given the chance, we might have a government that would have the moral spine to vote against it! I very much doubt that more than a small handful of voters voted Labour/Tory in the last general election on the trident issue. It's thus not our fault; short of everyone voting green in the UK election - seems little way of stopping it. We've voted in the government for other reasons.

With global terrorism such an issue these days, choosing our friends and doing something about trident might well make some difference. How much of a terrorist threat would there be to a nuclear-weapons free Scotland, aligned to UN peacekeeping and not to the rest of the UK's policy?

Out of interest, to everyone out there: how many of you are commenting on the Scottish elections but are NOT registered to vote in Scotland?

Edit: removal of rant about Senethro's comment since they've done something about it...

[Griggsy]

I'm all for Scotland gaining independence, just as long as they don't ask to come back and reunionise with us English if they find independence wasn't all it was cracked up to be

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'I run wild in the shadowy jungle of erotic adventures.'

[emerald_lady]

You make it sound like we'd be crawling back to you. Believe me, we wouldn't give you the satisfaction.

[Icarus]

Quoting Fraser Archibald Wallace from 22:10, 14th Apr 2007

In the way our kin die on shores abroad for oil we don't need- and will keep doing so as long as London dictates which conflicts we enter.


[hr]

[/quote]

Seriously, for your own good, drop this point. It sounds silly.

1. I've yet to hear anyone make a cogent argument supporting the idea that Iraq was entirely about oil. It's a big issue and I don't want to start a whole 'was Iraq about oil' argument. It'll get us nowhere because it's impossible to get anyone to agree. You either think it was about oil or you don't, but the point is there is no conclusive proof that it was entirely about oil; so please, don't trot out a one liner like that as if it is absolute undeniable fact. It isn't.

2. Ours is an entirely voluntary army. We have no conscription. No national service. Every man and woman in the armed forces is their of their own choosing. They knew the risks, they knew what they were getting into. The armed forces exist to fight wars. If you join, there's a chance you might actually have to go off and fight one. It's an individual's decision to join the army, so don't act like they've been drafted to go and fight off in the colonies against their will. Soldiers don't get to pick the wars they fight, they just fight them. That's the decision they make when they join of their own free will.

3. It's not just your 'kin' dying on foreign shores. English, Welsh, and Irish blood has been poured into Iraq and Afghanistan alongside the Scots. They fight under a united flag for a united purpose. Drop the rhetoric implying that Scotland is somehow being disproportionately victimised, like it's just Scottish troops being sent off to die while the English ones sit at home and drink tea. It's a truly national army. They're all in it together.

4. London doesn't dictate which conflicts we all enter. The democratic system of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland does. The government is the representative body of this entire state. Scottish people got a say in the decision to go to war like the rest of us did. Some Scottish people supported the war. Some Scottish people voted for it. Just because the war is unpopular now doesn't change this fact. A Scot is about to become our next Prime Minister, so it's not like the Scottish are barred from the London government you so detest. You may view the war as wrong, as being illegal, as being a complete and utter cock up, but none of that changes the fact that the government which decided to go to war was one which represented the entire country, including the Scottish. Democracies can make bad decisions too, it doesn't mean the process by which the decision was made was unfair.

[Senethro]

Quoting Icarus from 00:54, 15th Apr 2007

4. London doesn't dictate which conflicts we all enter. The democratic system of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland does. The government is the representative body of this entire state. Scottish people got a say in the decision to go to war like the rest of us did. Some Scottish people supported the war. Some Scottish people voted for it. Just because the war is unpopular now doesn't change this fact. A Scot is about to become our next Prime Minister, so it's not like the Scottish are barred from the London government you so detest. You may view the war as wrong, as being illegal, as being a complete and utter cock up, but none of that changes the fact that the government which decided to go to war was one which represented the entire country, including the Scottish. Democracies can make bad decisions too, it doesn't mean the process by which the decision was made was unfair.

HOLD IT!

When did we get the option to vote for/against war?

[thePontificator]

This thread has at least separated the well-argued SNP from the 'I have no idea what I'm talking about and am so ignorant that everyone assumes I am taking the piss' SNP arguments.

If Mr Archie Wallace is sincere then I hope he notes the SNP's policy on frequent shite spelling and grammar.

[Humphrey]

1. I've yet to hear anyone make a cogent argument supporting the idea that Iraq was entirely about oil. It's a big issue and I don't want to start a whole 'was Iraq about oil' argument. It'll get us nowhere because it's impossible to get anyone to agree. You either think it was about oil or you don't, but the point is there is no conclusive proof that it was entirely about oil; so please, don't trot out a one liner like that as if it is absolute undeniable fact. It isn't. .

If you want a reliable oil supply then the best thing possible for you is a dictatorship or a monarchy who can be easily bribed into giving up the goods. Therefore, the worst thing you could possibly have done is to topple Saddam and establish an unstable multi ethic democracy. The best thing to do would have been to keep Saddam in power and keep the oil for palaces, I mean food, programme; something that was singilarly unsucessful but now in the light of the recent chaos in Iraq is heralded as a strategic masterstroke. Iraq isn't about oil, its about something more dangerous, ideology.

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http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[Fraser Archibald Wallace]

Quoting Humphrey from 09:29, 15th Apr 2007

1. It isn't. .

Iraq isn't about oil, its about something more dangerous, ideology.

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http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

Iraq is diffirent things to diffirent people, ideology to the unsurgents, oil to the American Goverment, and then diffirent things to diffirent goverments outwith the situation, depending on what they want to see out of the area. But, especially with the amount of investment going into Iraqs oil from America, it is diffucult to argue that the original conflict was sparked by petro-imperialism.

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Scotland shall be free

[Fraser Archibald Wallace]

Quoting thePontificator from 02:14, 15th Apr 2007

I hope he notes the SNP's policy on frequent shite spelling and grammar.

Nice one, cockmunch. And if you now were told I was dyslexic? The thing is, I'm not, but I am aware of it- one quarter of people in the UK have it. The sinner boards are not the place for queens English, thats why I don't use it here. But I would shy clear of showing yourself to be so inconsiderate. I bet you vote tory?

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Scotland shall be free

[Fraser Archibald Wallace]

Quoting Icarus from 00:54, 15th Apr 2007

Seriously, for your own good, drop this point. It sounds silly.

.

If you calculate the proportion of infantry soldiers dead in the Conflict, the proportion of Scottish Infantry dead is generally slightly higher by about ten percent than the proportion of the Army they make up- and I wrote away to check on this by the way, since I spotted the highly dispropportinate figures on operation TELIC...

And which regiment was sent to the 'Triangle of Death'...Was it perhaps the...Black Watch?


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Scotland shall be free

[Iain]

Surely that says more about the trust and quality of the black watch rather than some anti-Scottish sentiment.

I think, since trident has shown it up, and the Iraq war - it's only fair to say that people's votes are either protests or a case of voting for the party that you think will bring the economic or idealist benefit (in whatever direct or round-about way) to yourself. Voting Labour in 2001 wasn't a vote for going into Iraq two years later.

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http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~snpsoc