Hamilton Hall - SOLD

[Midget]

I admit I have no proof that the University's plans won't be beneficial.

BUT let's try some induction here (I know, I know Locke proved it to be false ages ago, but if you're more of a Popper person..).

1.All the recent building by the Uni has been more expenisive and more importantly less community conscious, eg DRA, New Hall.

2.The recent proposed rent rises would they have been beneficial??? And even the present staggered rent rises? In three years time when no-one can afford accommodation will that be beneficial??

Come on you give me some proof that the opposite will occur and this sale will be beneficial, that they'll sell the hall and build an even better one with cheap rents and a decent community spirit and just on the edge of town.

I think it is you who need proof to back up your accersions not me.

(By the way if the plans do go through then my objective is to try to make sure that the new accommodation is beneficial in just the way I have described)

I'd love to believe that it is going to be beneficial, but I'm sorry I'm just not that optimistic.

[Midget]

On a further note if the last two posts are from College Gate then I think they ought to come out and and tell us. Lets not be hiding behind an unregistered user masks.

If your from the Uni Administration then you can register. If your a student then you ought to register otherwise people will assume you are from the Uni Administration and therefore won't really wish to take your points seriously.

[Guest]

[s]Midget wrote on 11:06, 15th Jul 2004:
otherwise people will assume you are from the Uni Administration and therefore won't really wish to take your points seriously.


Err, why? That would just be dumb. Would be nice to see people actually being rational about this rather than trying to blame it on particular people who have nothing to do with the situation other than being students or ex-students.

Why not wait and see what will happen before losing steam before it even gets to that stage.

Otherwise we'l get a repeat of the rent rise situation where it ended up even worse than predicted and there was no one left willing to argue anymore.

We don't even know what is planjned yet, perhaps it would be more sensible and professional to wait before rabble rousing.

[RJ Covino]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 13:03, 15th Jul 2004:
We don't even know what is planjned [sic] yet, perhaps it would be more sensible and professional to wait before rabble rousing.

And when nothing's left of the University in the town centre but the United College and St Mary's Quad, we can all sit back in our character-less and functionalized offices and halls somewhere between the North Haugh and Cupar and remember what it used to be like when St Andrews had a bit of style and grace.

[someone]

[s]RJ Covino wrote on 14:50, 15th Jul 2004:
And when nothing's left of the University in the town centre but the United College and St Mary's Quad, we can all sit back in our character-less and functionalized offices and halls somewhere between the North Haugh and Cupar and remember what it used to be like when St Andrews had a bit of style and grace.


Once again, folks, if we organize a bit, we can be ready to rock and roll when we all get back in September. Additionally, we can probably find out exactly what is going on.

I've opened a dialogue with our fair Quaestor. He'll e-mail me in full when he gets back from vacation at the end of the month. >:(

Even so, a forum has been set up exclusively for discussing how to approach the matter. Register on the forum if you want to get organized. The URL:

http://s3.invisionfree.com/Hamilton/

...and a homepage that, over time, can be edited (but hopefully replaced by something looking vaguely professional) and used as the internet presence of anyone who wants to get the ball rolling.

www.geocities.com/someone/hamilton



-Preston.

[hr]

"He said that my astronauts were living together in sin, and deserved to be mulched."

Disco Inferno.

[Admin]

If you like, you can have a messageboad on The Sinner - most people are already registered with The Sinner.

Just send me an email and I'll set it up.

[someone]

[s]Admin wrote on 20:01, 15th Jul 2004:
If you like, you can have a messageboad on The Sinner - most people are already registered with The Sinner.

Just send me an email and I'll set it up.


Smart idea, huh?

I'll jot one over to you by tomorrow morning--- for the time being, I am late for my night job, so I have to run.

Many thanks,

-Preston.

[hr]

"He said that my astronauts were living together in sin, and deserved to be mulched."

Disco Inferno.

[Guest]

While I don't like the idea of the university selling land ever, I do realise that Hamilton is very, very unusual in that it could be worth so much as a hotel.

However, one thing that does depress me is that is is likely that whatever is built to replace it will be unspeakably ugly. The university has an appalling track record in property deals (starting with the sale of St Leonards and continuing to the gateway) and building designs.

Our library and union look like car-parks, Meville like a psychiatric prison, and the rest of the North Haugh like an industrial estate. Is it any coicidence that the overwhelming majority of even half-way good buildings weren't build by the university (eg the philosophy and economics faculties). The only remotely classical building we have is the Younger hall, and that looks like a poor imitation of 20's/30's fascist architecture [which it is].

Is it too much to ask to have one fine building, i'm sure the university could afford Quinlin Terry just this once?

[RJ Covino]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 13:30, 15th Jul 2004:
(starting with the sale of St Leonards and continuing to the gateway)

I cannot resist commenting on this as it has amused me for years. You are aware that they kept the bit of St Leonard's that they thought they might need in future, right? What was it? The Chapel.

Still more amusing is that period of time when they used it as a greenhouse... or is it a just a garden when the roof's not there?

[Andrew Cusack]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 13:30, 15th Jul 2004:
Is it too much to ask to have one fine building, i'm sure the university could afford Quinlin Terry just this once?


A Quinlin Terry building in St Andrews! [cue Homer Simpson drooling sound]. Although I would prefer Demetri Porphyrios.

We should be so lucky! Unfortunately I think the University Court passed a motion banning good architectural firms in the 1950's and has yet to repeal it. Oh, if only someone in College Gate had some taste!

However, if we get Quinlan Terry to change their name and hand over a portfolio of really drab unexciting buildings to the administration, we may just have a chance.

[hr]
http://www.andrewcusack.com

[Anon.]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 13:30, 15th Jul 2004:
The only remotely classical building we have is the Younger hall, and that looks like a poor imitation of 20's/30's fascist architecture [which it is].

Oh dear, yes. I do hate Younger Hall.

[Scarlet]

Well, aside from all the politics and good/bad reasons, I just want to say that I've lived in Hamilton for 3 years and it makes me really sad to think that future students won't have the opportunity to live in such a special place.

[Midget]

And Younger Hall has Haig's name on it, ironic considering the number of young men he made sure would never have a chance to go to University.

[The Cellar Bar]

[s]Anon. wrote on 02:55, 16th Jul 2004:
[s]Unregisted User wrote on 13:30, 15th Jul 2004:[i]
The only remotely classical building we have is the Younger hall, and that looks like a poor imitation of 20's/30's fascist architecture [which it is].

Oh dear, yes. I do hate Younger Hall.
[/i]

if it's anything to go by, then it's also a warning as to what can happen when benefactors do things to benefit the University.

It's the "Younger Hall" because it was the brewing family as in "Younger's Tartan Special" who put the money up for it. And that in itself was reasonable enough.

The only problem was that part of the deal was that a member of the family got to design the thing. And he was apparently a good few bob short of a pound.

To the extent that he had a "calendar" fascination and it resulted in there being something like 365 windows, 53 doors, 7 entrances, 12 different architectural styles etc etc built into the sucker. Just a pity there wasn't such a thing as Lego back then.

I don't find it too bad a building, but given the "promises" from the alleged benefactors in the Hamilton deal, it might be worth keeping an eye on developments!!!

[Guest]

[s]Andrew Cusack wrote on 01:39, 16th Jul 2004:
Although I would prefer Demetri Porphyrios.


I'm afraid i must confess that I'm unfamiliar with his work; what has he done?


We should be so lucky! Unfortunately I think the University Court passed a motion banning good architectural firms in the 1950's and has yet to repeal it.

More like the 1850's.....

However, if we get Quinlan Terry to change their name and hand over a portfolio of really drab unexciting buildings to the administration, we may just have a chance.

I wonder how much he would cost, Downing College, Cambridge (not a hyper-rich college i believe) got him to do some really very fine work, and i think that part of it was for accomodation.

[Andrew Cusack]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 11:14, 16th Jul 2004:
[s]Andrew Cusack wrote on 01:39, 16th Jul 2004:[i]
I'm afraid i must confess that I'm unfamiliar with his work; what has he done?

Porphyrios did the new buildings at Magdalen, and has designed one of the new residential colleges at Princeton (Whitman College).

For more on him:

http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/02/0422/1b.shtml

http://www.magd.ox.ac.uk/looking_around ... quad.shtml

[hr]
http://www.andrewcusack.com

[Midget]

Architecture, clearly for the amount of money the University intends to spend on a replacement hall if they sell Hamilton there will not be enough to hire any of these famous modern day architects. Ultimately its pretty umlikely anything built will come even near to the aesthetic value of Hamilton, perhaps thats not important, perhaps it is. Basically though there is definetly no aesthetic argument for selling Hamilton. Admittedly architecture is in my view improving but we're still not making anything as durable as say the Victorians, so a lot of modern architecture looks good for a decade or so and then will start to look dated. Concrete look crap when its old whereas I quite like old brick buildings.

One thing the Uni could do is to buy a terrace of houses and turn that into a hall a la McIntosh.

Personally I can't see how you can make a decent enough profit from selling land with accommodation already built and good on it. And then buying land and going to the hassle of building accommodation on it, and even if they already have some land then building costs of this scale and knowing Uni contractors will still be ridiculously high.

[Anon.]

[s]Midget wrote on 13:53, 17th Jul 2004:
One thing the Uni could do is to buy a terrace of houses and turn that into a hall a la McIntosh.

Like Howard Place.

[Piloti]

[s]Midget wrote on 13:53, 17th Jul 2004:
there will not be enough to hire any of these famous modern day architects.

Traditionally though architects only charge a % of the total building cost [14% in Britain I believe], so hiring a decent classical architects like Terry et al. might not be as expensive as people think; the university should definitely look in to it. Please can we not have an other carpark/travel Inn/Prison Wing.

[raheli]

If the issue here is MONEY, why doesn't the Uni just lease Hamilton to one of these hotel companies and have a long term income from the place as well as the option of turning it back into student accomodation if things look up financially? I bet they could get far more than 20 million in the long run, and that financial iv drip could be used to subsidise the rocketing prices on other halls.

That being said I completely agree about the dreadful shame of losing a wonderful old historic building and replacing it with shitty functional "modern" halls like Smellyville and New Hall. And where are they going to put it? Miles and miles out of town? Perhaps they could buy a large cruise boat and just float it up to the pier!