THAT Nick Griffin Email

[quarterstaff]

for those who havent checked their mail yet, i recieved this today:

Important message to all staff and students

You may be aware from press reports that the Union Debating Society,
a student organisation, has invited Nick Griffin of the British
National Party to speak at a debate on multiculturalism in St Andrews
next week.

The University is conscious that this invitation is likely to cause
significant concern to a large number of people in St Andrews and
more widely. We have pointed out to the Debating Society that any
such visit is likely to be damaging to our efforts to promote
diversity in St Andrews and have asked them to reconsider this
invitation.

The University has also issued the following press statement:

"The views and values of Mr Griffin and his party are utterly odious to the
University of St Andrews, but we do not have a locus as a censor of
independent student debates."

If you have any concerns, please address them to the Debating Society.

_______________________________________________
Mr Alastair E W Work MA, Chartered FCIPD.
Secretary to the University Court
Principal's Office
University of St Andrews
KY16 9AJ
Scotland






SO, i felt it only right to send him a direct reply. i was wondering what you all thought. I urge you to email him youselves. This is what I wrote:





Dear Sir,

Although you indicated that we should address complaints about Mr. Griffin's visit to the debating society, I felt it only appropriate that I make my feelings on the matter heard/ read by yourself.

The implication in your email was that many students would agree that it would not be acceptable for Mr. Griffin to speak in St. Andrews, especially under the auspices of the University Union Debating Society. I think it is highly regrettable that the univeristy feels that free speech is of no value. Whilst I most certainly disagree with what i know of Mr. Griffin's beliefs, I am also aware that the media heavily distorts most non-mainstream political group's ideologies. I feel it would be beneficial to the student body to be exposed to Mr. Griffin's ideas, then we can decide for ourselves whether we also hold the same beliefs.

It is also important to note that the University's behaviour towards Mr. Griffin, as far as I am aware, is quite unique. Many other speakers have attended the Debates without even a hint of moral "concern" from the University. Whilst the university is quick to prevent the alienation of those of non-British origin by attempting to ban Mr. Griffin, it did nothing to care for the feelings of Scottish Catholics when Donald Findlay QC, a known agent provocateur, spoke here. If the University must pursue this unnecessary intervensionist policy, then surely it would be wise to do so with an even hand.

I also find your attempted control of Debates wholly inappropriate. The elected leaders of that body should be free from what amounts to little more than bullying and sabotage by the University. It is in fact this reactive inflammatory behaviour that puts the university in a bad light, not the acceptance of an outspoken political extremist to a Lower Parliament Hall Debate.

Finally, I would like you to consider the meaning of the word "debate". As far as I am aware the debating society has never attempted to affiliate itself with the views of any one speaker. The debating society is NOT supporting Mr. Griffin but rather allowing the OPPOSING speakers to break him down publicly.

I hope you will not try to turn the student body against its elected represantatives again any time soon,

Yours,

[flarewearer]

awesome reply QS!

[hr]...We sing of landscape and memory and the urgency to do it now; in the street and in the fields...

[md25]

I'm sure he'll read every word!

[Allan]

Quality!!!

[Marco Biagi]

Totally agree. Oh, and in light of what you've just said you might also want to know then that Donald Findlay currently holds a nominated position on Students' Association Board, elected by a majority student nominations committee.

[hr]Hello mum.

[Manic23]

Donald Finlay...I completely forgot about that sectarian bastard

Good point bringing him up- for when was the outcry over his little 'up to our knees in fenian blood' singsong shenanigans?

Double standards and all that

[Zombie Sheep]

I love Donald Findlay. I believe, quarterstaff, that your narrow-minded Catholic viewpoint does not allow you to understand just what a great man he really is. We are the people!

[hr]Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability. And I want you to know we are with you until victory, until Jerusalem.

[quarterstaff]

[s]Zombie Sheep wrote on 00:05, 4th Feb 2005:
I love Donald Findlay. I believe, quarterstaff, that your narrow-minded Catholic viewpoint does not allow you to understand just what a great man he really is. We are the people!

[hr]Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability. And I want you to know we are with you until victory, until Jerusalem.



LOL! awesome, kenny. banter aside, you must agree that freedom of speech is paramount, no?

i personally have no problem with our good old chum "singing finlay", its the inconsistency by Mr. Work and the university that is so galling.

see ya soon, homie.

[Zombie Sheep]

I agree, he should be allowed to come and speak, I just thought it seemed as if you were angling to have anyone controversial banned, rather than have everyone allowed? I'd be up for everyone, rather than no-one coming?

[novium]

[s]Manic23 wrote on 00:02, 4th Feb 2005:
Donald Finlay...I completely forgot about that sectarian bastard

Good point bringing him up- for when was the outcry over his little 'up to our knees in fenian blood' singsong shenanigans?

Double standards and all that




WHo is he? (Just curious)

[quarterstaff]

[s]Zombie Sheep wrote on 00:11, 4th Feb 2005:
I agree, he should be allowed to come and speak, I just thought it seemed as if you were angling to have anyone controversial banned, rather than have everyone allowed? I'd be up for everyone, rather than no-one coming?




frredom of speech + consistent non-interference.

lets get gerry adams over next week, eh?

(just get him to pop by on his way to your mum's)

[quarterstaff]

[s]novium wrote on 00:15, 4th Feb 2005:
[s]Manic23 wrote on 00:02, 4th Feb 2005:[i]
Donald Finlay...I completely forgot about that sectarian bastard

Good point bringing him up- for when was the outcry over his little 'up to our knees in fenian blood' singsong shenanigans?

Double standards and all that




WHo is he? (Just curious)
[/i]

famous scots lawyer who was caught on film singing highly sectarian songs... not quite right for a high officer of the law to be seen not only as biased, but also a religious bigot.

*shrugs*

no problem with the guy myself.. its freedom of speech that matters.

[Marco Biagi]

What Nick Griffin is openly towards black people, Donald Findlay is in his head towards Catholics. Fortunately, for a senior figure to actually express that one is a taboo, although that doesn't help if you get drunk at a Rangers celebration and get caught on video. It's a West of Scotland thing.

[md25]

[s]novium wrote on 00:15, 4th Feb 2005:
WHo is he? (Just curious)

Donald Findlay QC, excellent defence lawyer and pumper of money into the traditionally Protestant Rangers FC.

[JM]

OK, this is gonna cause some disagreements but anyways:

I agree with you - you did put across some very good points but dont you think it may be a little rude the way you worded it and by emailing it to him when he specifically told us not to?

Admittedly, you did put some good points forward that i never thought about but may'be it could have been tamed a little.

soz

[Marco Biagi]

Quarterstaff, as someone of liberal inclinations who grew up within an Orange household, I have a different perspective. I'll have to paraphrase Germaine Greer: most catholics don't realise just how much most protestants hate them.

[hr]Hello mum.

[jennyo]

[s]quarterstaff wrote on 00:18, 4th Feb 2005:
[s]novium wrote on 00:15, 4th Feb 2005:[i]
[s]Manic23 wrote on 00:02, 4th Feb 2005:[i]
Donald Finlay...I completely forgot about that sectarian bastard



WHo is he? (Just curious)


famous scots lawyer who was caught on film singing highly sectarian songs... not quite right for a high officer of the law to be seen not only as biased, but also a religious bigot.

*shrugs*

no problem with the guy myself.. its freedom of speech that matters.


Also a former rector of St Andrews from whenever until my first year (99-00)

[hr]
I love my country too much to be a nationalist. - Albert Camus

[quarterstaff]

no.1
donald finlay is a good lawyer. beyond that i have no interest in him.

no.2
i DIDNT ask to be pestered by mr. Work... and he didnt ask to be pestered by me. that makes us square.

no.3
he actually wanted us to address our concerns, pro or con, about mr. griffin's visit to debates. my concern was not that, but a concern with university policy. it is not his job to influence us the students. we pay fees. we are his employer. lets get some accountability, transparency, freedom of speech, and stop letting jumped up civil servants overstep their authority. If the university is concerned with the debates choices, they must speak to debates. they did that. and they didnt get their way *boohoo*. so they over step their authority, and try to influence us directly. SO... Mr. work gets the freedom to email us all, whilst mr. griffin is having to fight FOR THE RIGHT (!) to his freedom of speech.

[quarterstaff]

oh, and LOL@germainegreer.

[quarterstaff]

just kidding