The Library

[Rilla]

hahaha. the summer of what year?

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"O unworn world enrapture me, enrapture me in a web
Of fabulous grass and eternal voices by a beech"

[Guest]

Quoting Grandpa from 22:29, 21st Nov 2005
*crybaby rant*

Please, spare us your whining and STFU. kthx

[Guest]

Quoting kas48 from 15:52, 22nd Nov 2005
sort of related - what are they building beside the library at the moment?

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The bird with the thorn in its breast, it follows an immutable law. It is driven by it knows not what to impale itself, and die singing. At the very instant that the thorn enters there is no awareness in it of the dying to come; it simply sings and sings until there is not the life left to sing another note. But we, when we put the thorns in our breasts, we know. We know and still we do it. Still we do it.

its the new arts building: mostly for IR.

[derya]

Doesnt anyone else find the library freezing? By now, I have to sit there in my coat and get up every quarter of an hour just to get the blood warmed up again. I mean, Jesus, surely thats not what anyone would call a studying atmosphere??!

[queen of scots]

Quoting derya from 20:46, 22nd Nov 2005
Doesnt anyone else find the library freezing? By now, I have to sit there in my coat and get up every quarter of an hour just to get the blood warmed up again. I mean, Jesus, surely thats not what anyone would call a studying atmosphere??!

Yes - if I'm working on the microfilms or down in rare books I end up sitting there in a big coat and scarf, and try and warm my hands up on the power supply of my laptop which gives out a bit of heat!! I always thought I was just exceptionally cold blooded but glad I'm not alone!

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Life is like a beautiful melody, only the lyrics are messed up.

http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100070

[box_of_delights]

The heating seems to be variable. At times during the summer I've nearly melted in there and longed for aircon. However, the last week or two I've been quite chilled on all levels.

I spent a year at Warwick uni a few years ago and their library was MASSIVE, and although it probably had tonnes more books (and far more modern ones owing to the uni's age) it didn't have an atmosphere like ours. It was all white melamime and lino floors. However... they did have a swipe card check in system which would make it so much easier to get in. Or, beyond the realms of plausibility, but a fingerprint recognition system would solve the problem of fumbling for matric cards at the door, bags and books in hand.

[José Jimenez]

Quoting exnihilo from 14:34, 22nd Nov 2005
I can't have spent less than £500 a year I wouldn't have thought. Not as much as the fees, but the two are not related.

You can't have a situation where student numbers have doubled in ten years and funding has not and expect the university to double the number of books. Saying "yeah but I pay fees" is an irrelevance, just because I was before top-up fees doesn't mean that attending university didn't cost my parents money.

Why not get a group of people in the same class and buy collectively? You can sell them on at the end and split the money, or divide them up between yourselves, whatever your happiest with.

exnihilo, why can't they just provide us with what we need, instead of forcing students to come up with needless solutions at their own expense and frustration? Also consider that paying fees is relevant, as your parents are now paying for the University in taxes and the additional cost of tuition. I would also expect the University to do something to address the situation, even if that means admitting they don't have the money. I don't think they have ever really made a well publicized statement on this issue, though Alastair did say something at the student experience survery. I don't make excuses for this University - I expect them to do something. As far as I am concerned, the library became an issue when they failed to complete it back in the day.

And to unregistered user with the frowing smily - you might not mind when the University bends you over and extracts many thousands of pounds from you in tuition fees, and might not care that you are provided with with a half finished relic from the 70's with no books, but it is clear a lot of people do, So why don't you be quiet, and also post your name or at least an alias so I can address you in a more directly.

Keep the language civil when addressing another human being. Who made you the arbiter of what is acceptable to post and what isn't?

[José Jimenez]

Quoting derya from 20:46, 22nd Nov 2005
Doesnt anyone else find the library freezing? By now, I have to sit there in my coat and get up every quarter of an hour just to get the blood warmed up again. I mean, Jesus, surely thats not what anyone would call a studying atmosphere??!

I think you might find this interesting derya - by not providing a reasonable temperature without the use of special clothing, the university is violating the Workplace (Health, Safety & Welfare) Regulations 1992 and thus, the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974.

Perhaps this is the fire under the ass they need to fix things up.

[Frank]

Quoting José Jimenez from 02:48, 23rd Nov 2005Perhaps this is the fire under the ass they need to fix things up.

That'd certainly keep you warm in the library...a fire under the ass...

Frank

[novium]

when they're that old, they should be moved to the history library...

Quoting Dave the Explosive Newt from 09:49, 22nd Nov 2005

there are many horribly outdated science books (I recall finding a Gray's anatomy from 1915) -

[flarewearer]

Quoting from 13:40, 22nd Nov 2005
Please, spare us your whining and STFU. kthx

How about a nice SHUT THE FUCK UP yourself? Let him "whine" - if you don't like it, don't read it, or have the balls to post it under something other than an unreg.



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[bdw]

Quoting José Jimenez from 02:48, 23rd Nov 2005


I think you might find this interesting derya - by not providing a reasonable temperature without the use of special clothing, the university is violating the Workplace (Health, Safety & Welfare) Regulations 1992 and thus, the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974.

Perhaps this is the fire under the ass they need to fix things up.

Senor Jimenez, would the students be covered by this health and safety legislation despite not being employees of the party with responsibility for the "workplace"?

[José Jimenez]

Quoting bdw from 09:41, 23rd Nov 2005

I think you might find this interesting derya - by not providing a reasonable temperature without the use of special clothing, the university is violating the Workplace (Health, Safety & Welfare) Regulations 1992 and thus, the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974.

Perhaps this is the fire under the ass they need to fix things up.

Senor Jimenez, would the students be covered by this health and safety legislation despite not being employees of the party with responsibility for the "workplace"?[/quote]

Yup. See section three - General duties of employers and self-employed to persons other than their employee, Heath and Safety at Work Act 1974
http://www.healthandsafety.co.uk/haswa.htm

[bdw]

Quoting José Jimenez from 09:46, 23rd Nov 2005

Quoting bdw from 09:41, 23rd Nov 2005

I think you might find this interesting derya - by not providing a reasonable temperature without the use of special clothing, the university is violating the Workplace (Health, Safety & Welfare) Regulations 1992 and thus, the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974.

Perhaps this is the fire under the ass they need to fix things up.

Senor Jimenez, would the students be covered by this health and safety legislation despite not being employees of the party with responsibility for the "workplace"?

Yup. See section three - General duties of employers and self-employed to persons other than their employee, Heath and Safety at Work Act 1974
http://www.healthandsafety.co.uk/haswa.htm[/quote]

Much obliged.

[tickly leg]

Regarding the buying of more modern and most requested texts.

1) I was recently involved in a Staff-Student Council meeting, where staff informed us that the main library now has a policy of only buying in 1 copy of any book requested(very useful...)

2) However, it is due to the amount of red-tape involved in requesting and purchasing more modern texts that inhibits the library.

While funding has been increased, the number of books required has also gone up, so the library can still not meet the demands placed on it, despite the University heirarchy's belief that they have done all they can by upping funding in the past.

We were informed that it took nearly 10 months for a group of texts requested by our lecturer to get ordered, delivered and uploaded onto the system. If this is common, then even if funding is increased and more room is made available in the library itself, there is little hope that a new text that comes out at the beginning of a term will be available for you to use during that year, unless you purchase it yourself.

The only useful solution in this day and age is to start putting as much as possible onto an online system where many people could use the same text at the same time and can access it from wherever they want.

Also, on subject of long loans being too long:

I completely agree with a previous post, which said people would rather pay the small fine than return a book recalled by several people. It's a very unuseful system, especially for large sub-honours classes. However, consider that staff are allowed to take out books for the full year! This means that texts (often journals, where many different articles from the one text could be required by many people throughout that year) are completely removed from the library system for a full YEAR! I think long loans should be shortened and staff should be forced to abide by the same rules. We should *all* have to run round like headless chickens looking for books that don't exist - equality between staff and students!

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[Setsuna]

I'll agree with Flarewearer on Pg 1 - I knew the St Andrews library was shit, but since I've started at Edinburgh I've realised just HOW bad it was. I have only been in the biology/chemistry library here, but compared to the never-open-cupboard under the stairs in the Bute Building, the library at Edinburgh is amazing and HUGE, bright and airy, is well stocked with up-to-date books, subscribes to WAY more electronic journals and is a fantastic place to study until 10pm at night (in a departmental library!).

And the computing facilities are just as good, if not better (although not as good as the Bute computer lab in St Andrews, but that is the ONLY exception).

In fact, I believe St Andrews has completely gone downhill. Edinburgh is an excellent university in comparison. Since attending Edinburgh, I cant help but feel the worth of my St Andrews degree is less than i initially thought.

St Andrews only seems to care about money and getting more students, but cares less about the students once they are here. I dont miss the university as a whole at ALL... I just miss the community spirit, the staff (struggling in the biology dept with limited resources) and my friends.


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[lauremw]

It's not just staff that get them for a whole year - PhD students do as well. And taught masters have then up to 30 September of the year after they started.
PhDs and staff in particular need very specific books for lengthy periods of time. Where undergrads have a certain breadth in their essay topics between modules (even in the honours level), postgrads and staff go much more in depth on one topic. I appreciate being able to have books out for a year and if the return dates were the same as they are for undergrads, I'd just keep renewing the same books, which is an unnecessary hassle. If a book I've got out is recalled, I return it, and I think check-out lengths is the least of the library's worries.

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~*~*~*~
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~ Anais Nin

[flarewearer]

Quoting Setsuna from 00:43, 24th Nov 2005
I'll agree with Flarewearer on Pg 1

I agree with me too

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[Gubbins]

Regarding temperature, we successfully campaigned in Physics to get heating put into lecture theatre C. The temperature has to be below 15 or 16 degrees (sorry - can't remember which) more than once for a reasonable period of time before they'll do anything, but if you're working there (attn: Queen of Scots) you could take a thermometer in and keep a record of the temperature and present it to someone in authority - they're then obliged to do something about it.

As for books - I was there four years and never used to library for more than photocopying and ITS (once they'd moved there). The departmental libraries were always far more useful. Having seen the facilities of a number of other university libraries (Edinburgh, Manchester, Keele) I can safely say that the St. Andrews library doesn't appear to be in proportion to even the number of students as far as stocking books for typical users is concerned.

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...but then again, that is only my opinion.

[Celestial Navigator]

I don't know if its always been there, but this week I've noticed a themometer on the desk above the long loan return slot. Its a health and safety one with diferent levels marked on it. It is usually in the "OK" section, so at least in that one spot it would appear to be warm enough.