The Degree!

[KateBush]

I think a lot of people have issue with the fact that film is not seen as a literate subject- it's a lot more passive to sit and watch a film and take in what's going on than it is to go and read a text. And before you say anything about drama, no student of drama EVER studies plays simply by watching them- they also have to READ them first and foremost.
That may go some way to explaining peoples' prejudice?

As a medievalist I don't see how studying films can be like reading Beowulf in the original. I'm not saying it's invalid, but I do think that film is very different and shouldn't be categorised like a literary degree.

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POTS and Vasovagal Syncope- not for the *faint* hearted
See me in my wheelchair? Keep staring--I might do a trick!

[Marco Biagi]

The member of the University executive who led the charge for Film Studies was one of the ones who could be least accused of cynical marketing ploys. I do though suspect a fair chunk of the reason it was supported by the rest was to try to go against the stuffy image of the university that was a fairly well-deserved inheritance of the Arnott years.

For whatever my views are worth, film is just drama that is recorded, and to say that theatre as a sub-discipline is worthy of study when film is somehow intrinsically not is just snobbishness. Ok, you could say there are more truly great plays out there than truly great films, although even that is subject to challenge. And what about the wider context of film, something that has always been incorporated into study more in relation to film as a medium than say literature. Use as propaganda, the reflection of social changes, the instigation of social changes - all of that is valid too.

[McK]

Quoting katebush from 22:58, 3rd Dec 2005
I think a lot of people have issue with the fact that film is not seen as a literate subject- it's a lot more passive to sit and watch a film and take in what's going on than it is to go and read a text. And before you say anything about drama, no student of drama EVER studies plays simply by watching them- they also have to READ them first and foremost.
That may go some way to explaining peoples' prejudice?

As a medievalist I don't see how studying films can be like reading Beowulf in the original. I'm not saying it's invalid, but I do think that film is very different and shouldn't be categorised like a literary degree.

[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/vasovagalvegan/
POTS and Vasovagal Syncope- not for the *faint* hearted
See me in my wheelchair? Keep staring--I might do a trick!

Students of film also have to READ the script, just as drama students do. They study the theories, politics, and artistic aspects of the genre. To exclude film from the academic world is pure snobbery.

As to the comment that it can't be like reading Beowulf in the original: that is entirely your opinion. The experience is not the same per se, no, but to claim that the exhiliration cannot be the same for a student of the discipline is rather narrow-minded.

[Cain]

I have to err on the side of supporting film studies as a course with academic merit.

films are as much a form of art as sculpture, early tragedies, paintings etc. the study of them can involve some quite sophisticated analytical tools and understanding of storytelling, the conventions of the medium, political and philosophical schools of thought, etc etc.

i had the same "pshaw" attitude about art history until i actually did some. people can learn a lot by doing other subjects...

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I hold an element of surprise

[Tweedle-Dum]

I think it can be likened in many ways to literary criticism, in which modern works are all awful, and in any period, the great age of English literature has just passed. Films just haven't been around long enough to be "good", but surely even studying something to a degree depth, and claiming it bad, still shows the student's aptitude.

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Live by the sword, die by the arrow.

[KateBush]

I never said it was anything OTHER than my own opinion! THat's why I started my comment on it not being like Beowulf as "I don't see how" ....I'm used to being in the minority, me!



[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/vasovagalvegan/
POTS and Vasovagal Syncope- not for the *faint* hearted
See me in my wheelchair? Keep staring--I might do a trick!

[Guest]

But film studies uses scripts too. You do have to have one to study the dialogue of a film.

Did just want to say that I actually find it really heartening that so many people on here are supporting Film Studies. When it was introduced I felt like I was only hearing negative reactions - nice to know that people at St Andrews do consider it to be a worthwhile area of study.

[BeccaLydia]

I'm sure Film Studies is interesting and, with the direction society is taking, will be useful in the future. However, I do not feel I can whole-heartedly support it since the university spent so much money on a new department when they have recently closed down another. I know I'm biased because it's something I study, but I would have thought that Linguistics was an equally valid subject to study. However, the university have not only abolished the department, meaning that our courses flit between ELT and Modern Languages with no lecturers who lecture in linguistics specifically (there are a few who still publish works in Linguistics), but even the lecturers believe that the university is trying to get rid of Linguistics altogether. We even sent a petition to various important people and never got a proper reply, which I felt was rather rude.

As far as Film Studies goes, I just thought that maybe the university should have invested in departments which were already there, or at least potentially there. Linguistics is no longer a dying subject if you look at the number of other unis offering the course, so it would have been a worthwhile investment.

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http://facebook.com/p.php?id=37100244&l

[McK]

Quoting BeccaLydia from 16:20, 4th Dec 2005
I'm sure Film Studies is interesting and, with the direction society is taking, will be useful in the future. However, I do not feel I can whole-heartedly support it since the university spent so much money on a new department when they have recently closed down another. I know I'm biased because it's something I study, but I would have thought that Linguistics was an equally valid subject to study. However, the university have not only abolished the department, meaning that our courses flit between ELT and Modern Languages with no lecturers who lecture in linguistics specifically (there are a few who still publish works in Linguistics), but even the lecturers believe that the university is trying to get rid of Linguistics altogether. We even sent a petition to various important people and never got a proper reply, which I felt was rather rude.

As far as Film Studies goes, I just thought that maybe the university should have invested in departments which were already there, or at least potentially there. Linguistics is no longer a dying subject if you look at the number of other unis offering the course, so it would have been a worthwhile investment.

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http://facebook.com/p.php?id=37100244&l

Really interesting you should mention that. I hate to repeat myself, but again it's a legacy of the Arnott years. He despised linguistics and shut the department down, shifting various disgruntled lecturers around. (Indeed the decision sent one academic into such a depression and state of illness he died not long after.)

The problem with Film Studies is that the Exec see it as far more lucrative and glamorous than linguistics, which is a shame, although potentially true. I'm afraid Mod Langs have often been given the short straw, much as Geoscience was under Arnott (as anyone who knows of their long exile to Terrapin huts on the N.Haugh will confirm).

P.s. Katebush, I know you meant that as a subjective view. I just feel that too many people do see the discipline as passive (sitting watching TV) when it's far from.

[ajj24]

I'm not meaning to spoil your argument, but Film Studies HAS been "potentially there" for quite some time, with the English Department and Modern Languages offering modules based around their subject and the study of film.

Quoting BeccaLydia from 16:20, 4th Dec 2005

As far as Film Studies goes, I just thought that maybe the university should have invested in departments which were already there, or at least potentially there.

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http://facebook.com/p.php?id=37100244&l

[BeccaLydia]

Sorry, I didn't think about that one - to further your argument, anthropology also has this. But, it was the fact that our department, or non-department, is in such disaray due to lack of funding and interest on the part of the university. My point was that maybe the university should have tried to sort out their existing departments before creating new ones.

Quoting ajj24 from 16:55, 4th Dec 2005
I'm not meaning to spoil your argument, but Film Studies HAS been "potentially there" for quite some time, with the English Department and Modern Languages offering modules based around their subject and the study of film.

Quoting BeccaLydia from 16:20, 4th Dec 2005

As far as Film Studies goes, I just thought that maybe the university should have invested in departments which were already there, or at least potentially there.

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http://facebook.com/p.php?id=37100244&l

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http://facebook.com/p.php?id=37100244&l

[Dave the Explosive Newt]

Quoting Midget from 21:08, 3rd Dec 2005
They slagged off most subjects, History, English, etc when they were suggested for University degrees. And no these haven't always been subjects available at University. So by reductio ad absurdum we should all only be allowed to study Latin (I think that was the earliest subject I could be wrong, Greek?, Theology?).

Divinity, medicine and the law, I think. So I'm alright.

[hr]

This Sinner account is not affiliated with Will Watson.

[exnihilo]

Hmm, well it would depend. There was, of course, a standard "course" of study at studia generale which consisted of the trivium and the quadrivium, there were then higher degrees in divinity, medicine and law, hence the odd system we still have of acquiring an MA before a BD or an LLB.

[hr]

Albert Einstein -
Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.

[quarterstaff]

i find the concept of studying a specific artform quite absurd... art is about expression, and about the human condition... a subject like art history should encompass the study of a variety of art media, film included.

which is interesting because those who have studied english literature (YES! i am looking at YOU katebush) have not studied expression, but merely a mode of expression. so, as far as i am concerned the study of films is just as valid as the study of written "literature" (whatever *that* is)... i also find that those who have studied eng lit tend to be those most touchy about film studies... getting worried at all, that we might all catch on to your great lie? ;D

that said... i thought eng lit peeps studied the film kindhearts and coronets, no? that is a study of film.... so it would seem even the eng lit department consider the study of film to have a certain validity, no?



PS: all vocational courses, requiring intelligence or not, should be taught through on the job training, whilst being paid as apprentices, and through colleges. university is for the pursuit of knowledge and the furthering of our collective understanding of the world. thus medicine and law and engineering should not be university taught... in my view... and film studies most certainly should.

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god damned mongolians!

[rubbermuffin]

I wonder if we would be having this conversation if 'Film Studies' was simply enitled 'Film'. Probably, but I do think that adding the word 'Studies' to a degree title cheapens it somewhat.

It is just as valid to study film as any other subject. Just because it is a relatively new artform, and because film is part of a mass entertainment industry, doesn't mean it isn't an art, and that it deserves to be studied. As part of my sub-honours course in English we studied a film, and the English dept. offers a module on Shakespeare and Film at 3000 level, in which students are asked to plan a scene, as a director would.

[hr]

'If something has to change then it always does'

[Marco Biagi]

Quoting rubbermuffin from 11:36, 5th Dec 2005
I wonder if we would be having this conversation if 'Film Studies' was simply enitled 'Film'.

Very good point. Although this being St Andrews they'd probably have called it 'Cinematography' or 'Cinematology' or some such. Actually, come to think of it, why didn't they?

[McK]

Quoting Marco Biagi from 12:21, 5th Dec 2005

Quoting rubbermuffin from 11:36, 5th Dec 2005
I wonder if we would be having this conversation if 'Film Studies' was simply enitled 'Film'.

Very good point. Although this being St Andrews they'd probably have called it 'Cinematography' or 'Cinematology' or some such. Actually, come to think of it, why didn't they?

Because the term 'cinematography' is not the same as the study of film. It is far more specific, and usually refers to the way a film is visually presented. It does not, however, refer to the script, casting, the theories, history or politics behind a film, or any of the 'external' issues Film Studies includes.