American interested in coming...

[exnihilo]

I'm starting to get tired of saying this. Americans do not pay more than other students. The only difference is that as an American you paid all your fees, as a UK/EU resident you pay some and the government pays the rest. The amount the university gets per student is the same, so please, American students, stop assuming that a) you're being fleeced or b) you're carrying the rest of us.

[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

[exnihilo]

Oh, and you're not being fast-tracked in either. There's a certain number of places allocated to overseas students, and fewer applications per place than for home students, but even so as a UK student I had my unconditional from St Andrews within weeks of applying.

[hr]
He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

[VThigh]

here we go, i got an 1800/2400 on the PSATs, i am taking honors classes and will have a few AP's under my belt. My grades are looking up, more A's than B's this year and i have the extra curriculars in the bag. Pardon my modesty , i also want to major in classical studies as that is my passion. Thank you all for your help i really appreciate it, i get really into things and i don't want to be discouraged early on. again thanks and keep the posts coming.

[Guest]

Quoting VThigh from 03:27, 13th Dec 2005
i also want to major in classical studies as that is my passion.

if it were a passion, you'd read classics, not classical studies

[José Jimenez]

Quoting exnihilo from 01:03, 13th Dec 2005
I'm starting to get tired of saying this. Americans do not pay more than other students. The only difference is that as an American you paid all your fees, as a UK/EU resident you pay some and the government pays the rest. The amount the university gets per student is the same, so please, American students, stop assuming that a) you're being fleeced or b) you're carrying the rest of us.

[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

I'd like to discuss this further with you, but I don't think this the appropriate thread to discuss this on - I will send you an e-mail shortly.

[VThigh]

i want to major in ancient civilizations, or something to do with them. My passion is Imperial Roman history... sorry i wasn't clear enough.

[The Dude]

Quoting exnihilo from 01:03, 13th Dec 2005
I'm starting to get tired of saying this. Americans do not pay more than other students. The only difference is that as an American you paid all your fees, as a UK/EU resident you pay some and the government pays the rest. The amount the university gets per student is the same, so please, American students, stop assuming that a) you're being fleeced or b) you're carrying the rest of us.

[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

I agree that we are not being fleeced as It is still half the cost of a private university in the states. I think that your second point is half true though. We may not be carrying other students but we are providing more revenue. There are only something like 4400 government subsidized undergraduate spaces here. That means that with the exception of making some British/EU pay full fees, the emergence of foreign students is allowing the university to gain more revenue in general whether it be from a government or an individual. On that note though it would be nice if people stopped thinking of Americans as just a bunch of dumb rich kids brought in for their fees. I am not saying that you say that said that exnihilo. I just mean it in general.

On the note of the classics department, I believe that it is fairly highly regarded in academic circles with a high quality of teaching. The unregistered user is just being pedantic because classics requires a greater knowledge of languages than classical studies (among other things). I would imagine though that you might be angling toward Classical history which is a good course I understand. Just watch out because the idea of an interdisciplinary approach is only just emerging in the uk while it is the standard at most universities in the states. For instance I am doing Medieval History but int he US I would be doing Medieval Studies which would also incorporate theology, art history, english, anthropology, archeology, and probably a language or two. Because things like history are a bit more specific you do get some back ground in these other subjects but it is fairly focused on the specific subject you are studying.

[exnihilo]

Your point is confusing, and ultimately wrong. The difference between what you pay and what a UK student pays is made up by the government. From tax. Per student. EVERY student's fees are the same. You provide nothing more. If St Andrews had no overseas students and 7,000 UK/EU students then the government would pay fees for 7,000 UK/EU students. Simple.

Also, Classics is the study of Ancient History along with Latin and Greek language. Classical Studies is like English Lit., but of texts which might once have been in Latin or Greek. There's a world of difference between the two.

[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

[The Dude]

Quoting exnihilo from 18:04, 13th Dec 2005
Your point is confusing, and ultimately wrong. The difference between what you pay and what a UK student pays is made up by the government. From tax. Per student. EVERY student's fees are the same. You provide nothing more. If St Andrews had no overseas students and 7,000 UK/EU students then the government would pay fees for 7,000 UK/EU students. Simple.

Also, Classics is the study of Ancient History along with Latin and Greek language. Classical Studies is like English Lit., but of texts which might once have been in Latin or Greek. There's a world of difference between the two.

[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

I just found an interesting point in the 2004 University Court report. In talking about admissions (p. 8) it says "The University continues to experience strong demand for Home and EU undergraduate places and a modest breach of Funding Council limits occurred." Does this suggest that there are limits ore are the limits set on a year to year basis. If the university decided to stop admitting non EU students entirely but keep the current level of enrolment. Would the Funding Council pay for all 7,000 or would they require the university to keep the same EU enrolment it has now?

[exnihilo]

Yes, there are limits on home and EU students, and the university is fined for exceeding those limits. There's not, however, a statute that compels the university to have 7,000+ students. It does, and many of those are from the US, but that's just how things have worked out, not the law. It's an error to assume that UK students pay top-up fees and nothing more. Certainly that's all that's paid directly, but the tens of millions of pounds provided by SHEFC and various other funding bodies don't appear by magic, they come from taxation, which all UK students' parents have contributed towards. I'm not for a minute saying the university doesn't like or need American money, I'm merely trying to refute the nonsense that you pay 10 times what UK students do. Sure, you do. Directly. But indirectly we pay just as much. Simply it's because all universities in the UK are funded by the government, and are not (with one exception) private and therefore dependent solely on fees like they might be in other countries.


[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

[The Dude]

Quoting exnihilo from 09:53, 14th Dec 2005
Yes, there are limits on home and EU students, and the university is fined for exceeding those limits. There's not, however, a statute that compels the university to have 7,000+ students. It does, and many of those are from the US, but that's just how things have worked out, not the law. It's an error to assume that UK students pay top-up fees and nothing more. Certainly that's all that's paid directly, but the tens of millions of pounds provided by SHEFC and various other funding bodies don't appear by magic, they come from taxation, which all UK students' parents have contributed towards. I'm not for a minute saying the university doesn't like or need American money, I'm merely trying to refute the nonsense that you pay 10 times what UK students do. Sure, you do. Directly. But indirectly we pay just as much. Simply it's because all universities in the UK are funded by the government, and are not (with one exception) private and therefore dependent solely on fees like they might be in other countries.


[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

Ok that makes more sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

[exnihilo]

You're welcome.

[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

[José Jimenez]

Quoting exnihilo from 01:03, 13th Dec 2005
I'm starting to get tired of saying this. Americans do not pay more than other students. The only difference is that as an American you paid all your fees, as a UK/EU resident you pay some and the government pays the rest. The amount the university gets per student is the same, so please, American students, stop assuming that a) you're being fleeced or b) you're carrying the rest of us.

[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

Rereading my last post, I realize I never said that US students ultimately pay more than EU/UK students, Further, as we have discussed, money from overseas students apparently has fewer strings attached than that of UK/EU students making it ostensibly more desirable to the University.

[aladdinsane12]

I was admitted and here are my scores:

AP: one 5, two 4s, two 3s
SAT: 1350
ACT: 30

My advice is to come here immediately! It is by far the best choice I have ever made in my life

[novium]

Quoting VThigh from 13:53, 13th Dec 2005
i want to major in ancient civilizations, or something to do with them. My passion is Imperial Roman history... sorry i wasn't clear enough.

Imperial...well...nobody's perfect. But Romans! Yay! What excellent tast you have. (Except for the imperial part )

[hr]

quo vobis mentes, rectae quae stare solebant antehac, dementis sese flexere viai?

[novium]

I thought the classics department differentiated between Ancient History and Classics- classes under AN being oh, like "Roman Leisure" "the roman army" "roman republic" "archaeology"

and classes under classics being Latin and Greek, the literature itself, things like "women in ancient societies (with an emphasis on plays and poetry)"

Quoting exnihilo from 18:04, 13th Dec 2005
Your point is confusing, and ultimately wrong. The difference between what you pay and what a UK student pays is made up by the government. From tax. Per student. EVERY student's fees are the same. You provide nothing more. If St Andrews had no overseas students and 7,000 UK/EU students then the government would pay fees for 7,000 UK/EU students. Simple.

Also, Classics is the study of Ancient History along with Latin and Greek language. Classical Studies is like English Lit., but of texts which might once have been in Latin or Greek. There's a world of difference between the two.

[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

[hr]

quo vobis mentes, rectae quae stare solebant antehac, dementis sese flexere viai?

[novium]

As a student though, it makes a big personal difference whether one's education is being primarily paid for by the government or out of one's own pocket.

Quoting exnihilo from 09:53, 14th Dec 2005
Yes, there are limits on home and EU students, and the university is fined for exceeding those limits. There's not, however, a statute that compels the university to have 7,000+ students. It does, and many of those are from the US, but that's just how things have worked out, not the law. It's an error to assume that UK students pay top-up fees and nothing more. Certainly that's all that's paid directly, but the tens of millions of pounds provided by SHEFC and various other funding bodies don't appear by magic, they come from taxation, which all UK students' parents have contributed towards. I'm not for a minute saying the university doesn't like or need American money, I'm merely trying to refute the nonsense that you pay 10 times what UK students do. Sure, you do. Directly. But indirectly we pay just as much. Simply it's because all universities in the UK are funded by the government, and are not (with one exception) private and therefore dependent solely on fees like they might be in other countries.


[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

[hr]

quo vobis mentes, rectae quae stare solebant antehac, dementis sese flexere viai?

[exnihilo]

Quoting novium from 06:28, 15th Dec 2005
As a student though, it makes a big personal difference whether one's education is being primarily paid for by the government or out of one's own pocket.

Well of course it does. But there's no sense in which that was the issue.

[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

[VThigh]

why thank you novium, i am interested in the workings of the empire and the emperors, i went to rome and visited some sites... it sparked my interests.

[novium]

no, but it does explain why there might be a few feelings of resentment. Not that I'm saying it's reasonable. Just that it is.

Quoting exnihilo from 10:05, 15th Dec 2005

Quoting novium from 06:28, 15th Dec 2005
As a student though, it makes a big personal difference whether one's education is being primarily paid for by the government or out of one's own pocket.

Well of course it does. But there's no sense in which that was the issue.

[hr]

He [Julian the Apostate] had found by experience that no wild beasts are so hostile to men as are Christian sects in general to one another.
[s]Ammianus Marcellinus (c. AD 360)

[hr]

quo vobis mentes, rectae quae stare solebant antehac, dementis sese flexere viai?