The Rectorial

[suigeneris]

Okay, first of all - it's bloody LOSE, my shoelaces can be loose, but I can't loose my keys! Grr, it's everywhere now.

Secondly, what someone does in private company is NONE of your (or my) business. If you want some thought police to vet people like Donald Findlay to ensure they conform to your notion of a 'reconstructed' man then quite frankly you're insane.

Thirdly, deny and criticise is a perfectly suitable strategy when the other person is ignoring and polemicising.

[Sid]

Do you honestly take this man for his every word? If I was a bigot I wouldn't tell anyone, especially not some student I got acquainted with over the years.

Thick and ignorant isn't a judge of your character, but you do come across as that on this issue. And sarcasm is the lowest form of humour. But in defense of what I said, you must be thick if you think it's ok to sing Nazi songs when you're drunk, even although the song was adopted by the Nazi party, the fact it has anything to do with the Nazi party and you're singing it shows you to be a very low person, and ignorant, ignorant of what the Nazi party inflicted on people. Ask yourself is it really ok to sing Nazi songs?

And maybe he did represent the students well. But I will reiterate what I have said before. I would not want to be represented by a man who gets up on stage at a rangers shindig and sings anti-catholic songs. He could be the best representation in the world the fact that he is anti-catholic would stick in my throat.

Quoting exnihilo from 20:33, 13th Mar 2006
Grandpa: What the blazes are you talking about? Did you read the argument so far or is this another of your bizarre postings which bear no relation to reality?

Sid: I'm thick and ignorant? My you are a wealth of the old character assassination, aren't you?

Read back for those examples - they were there, when I said he represented all students equally and to the best of his considerable ability. What part don't you get?

As for the song, I use it as an example, it's not a Nazi song, merely one adopted by the Nazis. This demonstrates the point I made about context.

Really, you will find this argument more comprehensible if you read what I've said before you "reply" to it.

[Sid]

Now, if you'll excuse me all, my eyes have gone square, my back is sore, and I want to relax and have a cup of tea. I shall be back later to answer any further comments.

[exnihilo]

1) A student he got acquainted with over the years - I'll just dismiss all your friendships in similar vein shall I? What is your problem with the idea that he and I might be friends?

2) Being both Jewish and an historian I am, of course, woefully ignorant of what the nazis stood for.

3) And still you miss the point that both professionally and as Rector he represented everyone well - regardless of their religion, origins, whatever. This was a drunken error, not a lifetime's work of repression.

[[James]]

What an amazing feat of stamina/stubbornness it is that you two are still bitching about this. I thought this was meant to be about the rectorial installation?

[hr]

http://www.auditmypc.com/freescan/antispam.html

[exnihilo]

It evolved.

[Rufus]

One of the many flaws of the internet is that it allows arguments to carry on seemingly indefinitely.

Why not both agree to disagree, and prevent the premature coronary one of you will suffer as it is?

[hr]

[DrAlex]

Quoting Rufus from 22:36, 13th Mar 2006
Why not both agree to disagree, and prevent the premature coronary one of you will suffer as it is?

[hr]

I'm sorry, have you met Mr Joss? heh heh

[hr]

"Listen to DrAlex."-Polli
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100343

[Sid]

I was waiting on the whole, "but I'm Jewish", someone told me who you were. Anyway, I still think it's very ignorant of you to sing these songs and you being Jewish should know better. I doubt we will resolve this. I still maintain that Donald Findlay's only mistake to him was getting caught. I respect you for defending him to the bitter end, but I feel that, like I have said before, that if he was any sort of person he wouldn't have been in that situation in the first place. No one becomes a bigot for one night only.

Quoting exnihilo from 22:00, 13th Mar 2006
1) A student he got acquainted with over the years - I'll just dismiss all your friendships in similar vein shall I? What is your problem with the idea that he and I might be friends?

2) Being both Jewish and an historian I am, of course, woefully ignorant of what the nazis stood for.

3) And still you miss the point that both professionally and as Rector he represented everyone well - regardless of their religion, origins, whatever. This was a drunken error, not a lifetime's work of repression.

[exnihilo]

I don't do the "but I'm Jewish". Don't be offensive. I was merely pointing out why the Horst Wessel Lied was a valid comparison.

[flarewearer]

STOP, LOOK, LISTEN AND THINK then type

[hr]

image:www.magnificentoctopus.com/x/elgar.png

[Sid]

Well that's what you did. I'm not being offensive, I'm pointing out fact. Yes it is a comparison, but you don't seem to realise that it is offensive just as much as Donald Findlay was being offensive in singing his songs.

Quoting exnihilo from 01:41, 14th Mar 2006
I don't do the "but I'm Jewish". Don't be offensive. I was merely pointing out why the Horst Wessel Lied was a valid comparison.

[exnihilo]

I did think, I wasn't bleating about being Jewish, nor holding it up as a defence - I was merely explaining why my analogy was valid.

But as you seize on it, who, pray, in the company of other Jews was I offending?

[Sid]

That reminds me of the those 70's crossing the road adverts.

Quoting flarewearer from 01:45, 14th Mar 2006
STOP, LOOK, LISTEN AND THINK then type

[hr]

image:www.magnificentoctopus.com/x/elgar.png

[Fawksie]

Quoting flarewearer from 01:45, 14th Mar 2006
STOP, LOOK, LISTEN AND THINK then type

That would make a fantastic poster Flare.

[Lodestone]

This all reminds me of what happened to Elvis Costello.

Drunk, once, in a heated argument, he very, very referred to Ray Charles as a "blind, ignorant nigger", and it got taken massively out of context and reported in the Press. He was torn apart, and it still haunts him today, despite being a notable anti-racism activist before and after the event. Even Ray Charles forgave him and said "Drunken talk isn't meant to be printed in the paper".

People make huge lapses of judgement and character when drunk, and it's impossible to judge them based solely on such a lapse.

That is all.

[Sid]

It's not the same. If he had of said it whilst at a KKK convention then it would be a little more like what happened with Donald Findlay.

Quoting Lodestone from 10:50, 14th Mar 2006
This all reminds me of what happened to Elvis Costello.

Drunk, once, in a heated argument, he very, very referred to Ray Charles as a "blind, ignorant nigger", and it got taken massively out of context and reported in the Press. He was torn apart, and it still haunts him today, despite being a notable anti-racism activist before and after the event. Even Ray Charles forgave him and said "Drunken talk isn't meant to be printed in the paper".

People make huge lapses of judgement and character when drunk, and it's impossible to judge them based solely on such a lapse.

That is all.

[Lodestone]

I know very little of the details of what happened with Findlay, and so am, as should all sensible people, suspending judgement.