International Woman's Day

[Smith]

Quoting treehugger from 23:23, 8th Mar 2006
I feel like appealing to TV commercials for signs of positive discrimination is a little bit silly. Obviously they are all very PC but primarily they’re there to get people to buy stuff, id venture to say that more retail expenditure can be attributed to women so adverts for food and nifty household goods are aimed at women. As for car insurance…well women have fewer accidents so that’s a viable niche market, a men only insurance company would only be able to offer higher premiums, although I bet the commercials would be less annoying.

Legislatively I don’t think women in the west have all that much to moan about anymore, however there are obviously still strong cultural forces that keep women from enjoying anything like the social freedom men have. The abolition of sexual repression that started in the 60’s has, in my mind, just resulted in a new, ever so slightly less tyrannical definition of the feminine. There are massive great cultural monopolies putting pressure on females at all stages of their life, which I think are felt much more acutely than by men. 10 year old girls now wear thongs and makeup while their male classmates seemingly still get to be kids. You want to know why there still need to be a women’s day? Watch a rap video or watch extreme makeover, both horrific examples of how coercive this new feminine image is. Its not all coming from men either, some of the most obstructive elements of this new culture come from women, I think cosmopolitan is more like an instruction manual than a lifestyle magazine and Bridget Jones! The most celebrated character in contemporary feminine culture, she is stupid, clumsy and utterly dependant on men for happiness/ direction yet every girl in the world seems to delight in the fact that they are just like her! That’s why there is a pay gap after 30 years of feminism and will be for 30 years more and that’s why so few women ever aspire to the upper echelons of management.
I think women have every right to a women’s day but I think it ought to be spent thinking about where feminism need to go to secure real progress.
P.S. Muchingfoo you do come off as a wiseass and im not surprised neener thinks your trying to insult her.

That's bollocks, men are just as dependant on women for happiness as women are on them.

To say that women are oppressed nowadays is a joke.

My mum was earning about twice the wage of my dad over 10 years ago, and neither of them had any academic background to begin with (although my mum now has a degree in Systems Analysis.)
Some of my best (girl)friends from school have already graduated and are earning far more than I could hope to get with the same degree after I graduate this summer.
In what way are women oppressed? Please, somebody tell me.
International women's day?
I'm just wondering how long it will take western society before every day of the year isn't a fairtrade day, an anti-smoking day, a let's bomb the middle-east day, a let's-all-not-say-black-anymore-because-saying a colur is offensive-day, or some other piece of crap that really doesn't matter.

I think the major problem with our society is that a lot of people just don't have anything to do anymore, that's where all this rubbish is coming from.

There was a physics paper released recently on the physics of snapping spaghetti. I mean, if that's all there is left to study in physics, we should just sweep it under the carpet and file it under "Complete."

Just a few of the ideas brewing in my mind just now.

[hr]

Cake, and fine wine.

[Smith]

and on that note, I'm off for a late night cigarette, and bed.

[hr]

Cake, and fine wine.

[munchingfoo]

Quoting neener from 02:26, 9th Mar 2006
Sorry thats right. i forgot the thrilling examples of your neighbor and sister.

Deary me - is there a point to your random sprawlings? What on earth has that got to do with what we were just talking about?

Should I reiterate my last point for you?

"Perhaps you could just be honest with yourself and admit the reason you are not arguing is because you allowed yourself to get too heated about the discussion and became blind to what it was you were actually arguing about."

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[novium]

i've read that some of the wage gap is most likely connected to negotiating techniques. Which is, women tend to accept the first offer and men tend to go "no, I want double that" and haggle.

Quoting neener from 21:45, 8th Mar 2006
www.womenandequalityunit.gov.uk/pay/pay_facts.htm
pay gap of 13%.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4561726.stm
11% of management positions held by women

http://www.oxfamgb.org/ukpp/resources/
the poverty that carers live in (read women)

[hr]

"those who wish to be feared must inevitably be afraid of those whom they intimidate"
"In anger nothing right or judicious can be done."

[flarewearer]

Quoting Lodestone from 20:58, 8th Mar 2006

There is not an International Men's Day because men have never been an oppressed minority

Have women ever been a minority? In fact, I was under the impression that, if anything, they are a slight majority.

[hr]

image:www.magnificentoctopus.com/x/elgar.png

[Lodestone]

Quoting Smith from 02:30, 9th Mar 2006

Quoting treehugger from 23:23, 8th Mar 2006
I feel like appealing to TV commercials for signs of positive discrimination is a little bit silly. Obviously they are all very PC but primarily they’re there to get people to buy stuff, id venture to say that more retail expenditure can be attributed to women so adverts for food and nifty household goods are aimed at women. As for car insurance…well women have fewer accidents so that’s a viable niche market, a men only insurance company would only be able to offer higher premiums, although I bet the commercials would be less annoying.

Legislatively I don’t think women in the west have all that much to moan about anymore, however there are obviously still strong cultural forces that keep women from enjoying anything like the social freedom men have. The abolition of sexual repression that started in the 60’s has, in my mind, just resulted in a new, ever so slightly less tyrannical definition of the feminine. There are massive great cultural monopolies putting pressure on females at all stages of their life, which I think are felt much more acutely than by men. 10 year old girls now wear thongs and makeup while their male classmates seemingly still get to be kids. You want to know why there still need to be a women’s day? Watch a rap video or watch extreme makeover, both horrific examples of how coercive this new feminine image is. Its not all coming from men either, some of the most obstructive elements of this new culture come from women, I think cosmopolitan is more like an instruction manual than a lifestyle magazine and Bridget Jones! The most celebrated character in contemporary feminine culture, she is stupid, clumsy and utterly dependant on men for happiness/ direction yet every girl in the world seems to delight in the fact that they are just like her! That’s why there is a pay gap after 30 years of feminism and will be for 30 years more and that’s why so few women ever aspire to the upper echelons of management.
I think women have every right to a women’s day but I think it ought to be spent thinking about where feminism need to go to secure real progress.
P.S. Muchingfoo you do come off as a wiseass and im not surprised neener thinks your trying to insult her.

That's bollocks, men are just as dependant on women for happiness as women are on them.

That being the point. That Bridget Jones is adored as a cultural icon when she relies on men to look after.

To say that women are oppressed nowadays is a joke.

No, it's not. To say that women have achieved equality with men is definitely a joke. Women, as treehugger well pointed out, are not legislatively oppressed any more, which is a huge advance, but you just need to look at some of the stats provided on this thread to spot the lack of real social emancipation.

My mum was earning about twice the wage of my dad over 10 years ago, and neither of them had any academic background to begin with (although my mum now has a degree in Systems Analysis.)
Some of my best (girl)friends from school have already graduated and are earning far more than I could hope to get with the same degree after I graduate this summer.

This thread is full of people citing particular cases of their family and friends, which is, of course, nothing more than an argumentative technique with all the rhetorical force of "yo mama". Somebody'll mention "the exception that proves the rule" next, I've no doubt.

In what way are women oppressed? Please, somebody tell me.

Treehugger and Neena already did.

International women's day?
I'm just wondering how long it will take western society before every day of the year isn't a fairtrade day, an anti-smoking day, a let's bomb the middle-east day, a let's-all-not-say-black-anymore-because-saying a colur is offensive-day, or some other piece of crap that really doesn't matter.

As I said early on in the thread, this was not a day originally made prolific by the west, but by communist countries. And it's 100 years old, not anything new.

[Rufus]

It is quite interesting that most of you didn't notice that it was 'International' Women's Day.

Now, I presume you'll argue that the Taliban was nothing more than Western melodrama, and that the discrepancy between a man's lifetime earnings and a woman's is that she spends most of hers on shoes and face cream.

[motorhead]

National womans day is a good thing because i love woman and feel that they should be treated with the utmost respect and care. especially those muslim motherfuckers who treat thier women like dogshit. For example a woman can be tried for adultery in some countries if she is a victim of rape. Also the way they make thier women walk around covered up in the blazin sun, or indoors. i am all up for a day which highlights theses sorry cases. also as for the people who are against national womans day, what the fuck have you got to gain. women are fucking beautiful and i personally dedicate everyday to them. so come on girls give me a call on 07906065681

[Lodestone]

Quoting Rufus from 09:32, 9th Mar 2006
It is quite interesting that most of you didn't notice that it was 'International' Women's Day.

Now, I presume you'll argue that the Taliban was nothing more than Western melodrama, and that the discrepancy between a man's lifetime earnings and a woman's is that she spends most of hers on shoes and face cream.

Oh goodness.

Yes. We all missed that, on both sides. We got bogged down in national women's issues. And of course there's a huge value in this day in its ability to bring to light oppression of women in countries across the world.

Thank you.

[Lodestone]

Quoting motorhead from 09:39, 9th Mar 2006
National womans day is a good thing because i love woman and feel that they should be treated with the utmost respect and care.

I'm sorry, but I'm physically and mentally exhausted and so don't trust my humour sensors right now and have to ask:

That is a joke, right?

[DrAlex]

Now, there's an International Women's Day. It's an institutition around 100 years old--it began as a day declared by the Socialist Party of America in the first decade of the last century.

As I said early on in the thread, this was not a day originally made prolific by the west, but by communist countries. And it's 100 years old, not anything new.

Well, which is it?

[hr]

http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100343

[Lodestone]

Quoting DrAlex from 09:51, 9th Mar 2006

Now, there's an International Women's Day. It's an institutition around 100 years old--it began as a day declared by the Socialist Party of America in the first decade of the last century.

As I said early on in the thread, this was not a day originally made prolific by the west, but by communist countries. And it's 100 years old, not anything new.

Well, which is it?

Both.

It continued in Bloc countries, but never took off in the West until the rise of feminism.

It began in America, but was made prolific by communist countries.

[motorhead]

why would it be a joke

Quoting Lodestone from 09:49, 9th Mar 2006

Quoting motorhead from 09:39, 9th Mar 2006
National womans day is a good thing because i love woman and feel that they should be treated with the utmost respect and care.

I'm sorry, but I'm physically and mentally exhausted and so don't trust my humour sensors right now and have to ask:

That is a joke, right?

[Lodestone]

Quoting motorhead from 10:53, 9th Mar 2006
why would it be a joke

Quoting Lodestone from 09:49, 9th Mar 2006

Quoting motorhead from 09:39, 9th Mar 2006
National womans day is a good thing because i love woman and feel that they should be treated with the utmost respect and care.

I'm sorry, but I'm physically and mentally exhausted and so don't trust my humour sensors right now and have to ask:

That is a joke, right?

Because in this country IWD is a feminist event, and any feminist would baulk at being condescended to to be treated with "utmost respect and care" by a man. It's about equality of attitude. It's a joke because you don't seem to realise this, and because your attitude is antiquated.

[motorhead]

Quoting Lodestone from 11:00, 9th Mar 2006

Quoting motorhead from 10:53, 9th Mar 2006
why would it be a joke

Quoting Lodestone from 09:49, 9th Mar 2006
[quote]Quoting motorhead from 09:39, 9th Mar 2006
National womans day is a good thing because i love woman and feel that they should be treated with the utmost respect and care.

I'm sorry, but I'm physically and mentally exhausted and so don't trust my humour sensors right now and have to ask:

That is a joke, right?

Because in this country IWD is a feminist event, and any feminist would baulk at being condescended to to be treated with "utmost respect and care" by a man. It's about equality of attitude. It's a joke because you don't seem to realise this, and because your attitude is antiquated.[/quote]


I wouldnt say it was a feminist event but a political event displayin the mistreatment of women around the world backed up by facts and evidence. All i am saying is that i dont see any major problem with this event as it causes no harm to anyones views or opinion apart from individuals like you who deny that feminists are principply looking for respect and better treatment in the world.

[Monster Sink]

I think feminism is a great idea. It gives the ugly ones something to do.

[Guest]

International Womans Day?
I'm taking that day off.

But seriously, i kinda agree (surprisingly) that women do deserve a 'day'. They have put up with a lot of shit.
But then u might argue that such and such a group need a 'day' too cos they've put up with a lot of shit too, only thing is if we go down that avenue, its gonna get bloody messy. Women have a 'day', let them keep it. To be honest i'm gonna forget which date it is and not pay any attention to it because i'l be worrying about other things most probably.

The main 'days' to me are Christmas, Easter Sunday, Birthdays, Mother/Fathers day, Raisin Sunday, Guyfawkes, halloween and Rememberance day. I think i'm gonna include the "Steak and Blowjob day" now.

[Lodestone]

I wouldnt say it was a feminist event but a political event displayin the mistreatment of women around the world backed up by facts and evidence. All i am saying is that i dont see any major problem with this event as it causes no harm to anyones views or opinion apart from individuals like you who deny that feminists are principply looking for respect and better treatment in the world.

You misunderstand. I was trying to point out the fact that your seeming attitude (that women need "respect and care" from men) is exactly the kind of prejudicial attitude which women's movements try to combat.

[jequirity]

And then women complain that chivalry is dead. If you're a male, you can't win.

[hr]

LEEERRRROYYYY!!!!

Andrew W K Day 9th of May

[munchingfoo]

As I took offence to the generalisations made against men I feel I must now back up women in your generalistic attack on them Mr Birch.

There are very few women who would actually say chivalry is dead AND not want care and respect because of it being patronising. Excessive, crazy, feminists don't want chivalry.

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!