International Woman's Day

[flarewearer]

This should read "when is international mans day"?

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[Garnet]

every other day?

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http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37106569

[DrAlex]

Who is International Woman and why does she have a day?

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http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100343

[flarewearer]

She's your mother ¬ and she has a day 'cos she's special

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[Sid]

What is this drivel all about? Please tell me there isn't actually a National Womans day.

[Lodestone]

Quoting Sid from 20:27, 8th Mar 2006
What is this drivel all about? Please tell me there isn't actually a National Womans day.

Now, there's an International Women's Day. It's an institutition around 100 years old--it began as a day declared by the Socialist Party of America in the first decade of the last century. It was IWD demonstrators who swelled the ranks of the protestors who brought about Russia's 1917 February Revolution. It continued in Bloc countries, but never took off in the West until the rise of feminism. It became UN endorsed somewhere in the mid-70s.

Fairly established institution, then.

There is not an International Men's Day because men have never been an oppressed minority, and there have been historically very few, if any, issues of socially-engrained anti-male prejudice which such days can help bring to the fore.

[munchingfoo]

and there are very few, if any, issues of socially-engrained anti-male prejudice.

You are taking the piss, right? As far as getting a job goes (and I mean any bog standard job, not some upper management crap which would appear to still be white elitist) white males are actively discriminated against, and you can't arrgue with this. It's called positive discrimination and the government endorses it. Whatever will they think of next.

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Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[Cain]

Quoting flarewearer from 20:14, 8th Mar 2006
This should read "when is international mans day"?

Google for "March 20th" to find out.

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I hold an element of surprise

[Lodestone]

You are taking the piss, right? As far as getting a job goes (and I mean any bog standard job, not some upper management crap which would appear to still be white elitist) white males are actively discriminated against, and you can't arrgue with this. It's called positive discrimination and the government endorses it. Whatever will they think of next.

Added in a "historically" while you were writing that post in pre-emptive answer to such an objection.

But such an issue, if there is anything very substantial to it, pales in comparison to women's issues past and present.

[neener]

Quoting munchingfoo from 21:03, 8th Mar 2006

and there are very few, if any, issues of socially-engrained anti-male prejudice.

You are taking the piss, right? As far as getting a job goes (and I mean any bog standard job, not some upper management crap which would appear to still be white elitist) white males are actively discriminated against, and you can't arrgue with this. It's called positive discrimination and the government endorses it. Whatever will they think of next.

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Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

I think the best way to look at the seriousness of positive discrimination would be to look at the distribution of wealth, pay, management, and employment oppurtunities of men versus women. Then we can look at statistics of murder rates by spouses, violence and rape and compare across genders. Then we can examine single mothers and their living standards.

[DrAlex]

Quoting munchingfoo from 21:03, 8th Mar 2006
It's called positive discrimination and the government endorses it.

Also known as Affirmative Action in the US.

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[Lodestone]

I think the best way to look at the seriousness of positive discrimination would be to look at the distribution of wealth, pay, management, and employment oppurtunities of men versus women. Then we can look at statistics of murder rates by spouses, violence and rape and compare across genders. Then we can examine single mothers and their living standards.

Thank you, neena.

The attempt by men to try and equate their issues is really frustrating.

[munchingfoo]

Murder and rape - yes, very nice examples of prejudice. Perhaps an example would be a man who is beatten by his girlfriend regularly (yes this really does happen just as much as the other way round) but feels too much like the general public will look down on him and the legal system won't back him up.(solely because he is a man - this is the point you seem to miss about what prejudice is) Now, that, thats prejudice, but alas, you know we are men, we can take it.

And as a point to note, the single mother who lived next door to me for most of my life had better living conditions than I ever did. Also, my sister, a young single mother doesn't do too bad for herself either. What do you base your fact on?

But such an issue, if there is anything very substantial to it, pales in comparison to women's issues past and present.

Of course, the past was horrible, however, it is exactly that - the past. As for the right here and now?

My above post was not an attack on womans day, but rather a correction to another persons post.


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Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[DrAlex]

Quoting neener from 21:08, 8th Mar 2006

I think the best way to look at the seriousness of positive discrimination would be to look at the distribution of wealth, pay, management, and employment oppurtunities of men versus women. Then we can look at statistics of murder rates by spouses, violence and rape and compare across genders. Then we can examine single mothers and their living standards.

While your former sentence may prove interesting and provide interesting evidence, the latter two are non-sequitors. How will any of those statistics shed light on the "seriousness of positive discrimination"?

My only real issue with feminist/pro-woman/girl-power/whatever thought and debate is that it is, more often than not, not at all concerned with equality. In campaigns for equal rights, most of what I see is just insulting men, bringing up past oppression, and using both of those to justify whatever it is that's on the table.

And please, it should be "Women's Day", since it's not celebrated by only one woman. Or is it?

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[Sid]

Sod International Womens day!!! Fair enough women were suppressed in the past, but they should just bloody get on with it now. How can you have equality with stupid things like International womens day?

[neener]

Quoting munchingfoo from 21:17, 8th Mar 2006
Murder and rape - yes, very nice examples of prejudice. Perhaps an example would be a man who is beatten by his girlfriend regularly (yes this really does happen just as much as the other way round) but feels too much like the general public will look down on him and the legal system won't back him up. Now, that, thats prejudice, but alas, you know we are men, we can take it.

And as a point to note, the single mother who lived next door to me for most of my life had better living conditions than I ever did. Also, my sister, a young single mother doesn't do too bad for herself either. What do you base your fact on?

But such an issue, if there is anything very substantial to it, pales in comparison to women's issues past and present.

Of course, the past was horrible, however, it is exactly that - the past. As for the right here and now?

My above post was not an attack on womans day, but rather a correction to another persons post.


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Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

Your above post is giving me examples of particular experiences that may go against the grain. I understand that spousal abue goes both ways and but i also know that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that reveals men hurt women more than vice versa. We could also examine child sexual abuse as u would think that child victims may have similar reporting rates and men dominate the abusers category here as well. My comments are made based on years of research and if you would like me to direct you to some books and government websites i can do so. Furthermore, I find it absolutely ridiculous when people claim that women are no longer oppressed in western countries and that it is a thing of the past. I would give you a statistical rant but i think its fairly obvious.

[munchingfoo]

Re: Womens day

I'm all for it, in the sense of it being a rememberance. Its good that we remember, in the same way as Rememberance Sunday, such that we do not let it happen again.

Thats a point to note though neena. Whilst you are wading through your wonderfully pointless statistics perhaps you would like to look into figures of how many men vs women gave their lives to protect the freedom you enjoy today? (I do not think this is a valid point to any arguement around positive discrimination, but it is no less so than the ones listed above)

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Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[Lodestone]

And please, it should be "Womens' Day", since it's not celebrated by only one woman.

Or even "Women's Day", like I posted.

Sod International Womens day!!! Fair enough women were suppressed in the past, but they should just bloody get on with it now. How can you have equality with stupid things like International womens day?

You numpty.

[neener]

Quoting DrAlex from 21:23, 8th Mar 2006

Quoting neener from 21:08, 8th Mar 2006

I think the best way to look at the seriousness of positive discrimination would be to look at the distribution of wealth, pay, management, and employment oppurtunities of men versus women. Then we can look at statistics of murder rates by spouses, violence and rape and compare across genders. Then we can examine single mothers and their living standards.

While your former sentence may prove interesting and provide interesting evidence, the latter two are non-sequitors. How will any of those statistics shed light on the "seriousness of positive discrimination"?

My only real issue with feminist/pro-woman/girl-power/whatever thought and debate is that it is, more often than not, not at all concerned with equality. In campaigns for equal rights, most of what I see is just insulting men, bringing up past oppression, and using both of those to justify whatever it is that's on the table.

And please, it should be "Womens' Day", since it's not celebrated by only one woman. Or is it?

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http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100343

1)It is international women's day. look it up.
2)i am not shedding light on positive discrimination, i am responding to the overall idea that women are not oppressed (or suppressed as sid put it?????????) and should thus not have a womens day. As i understood it positive discrim was an example of this larger supposed fact.
3) The civil rights movement has a similar structure as the womens movement and yes there is alot of anger there, and i agree that hating the 'other' wont help. But not all womens groups do that. And my research has focused on the problems that masuclinity creates for men. However, i adamently state it again, western societies do not have gender equality.

[munchingfoo]

Quoting neener from 21:26, 8th Mar 2006

Quoting munchingfoo from 21:17, 8th Mar 2006
Murder and rape - yes, very nice examples of prejudice. Perhaps an example would be a man who is beatten by his girlfriend regularly (yes this really does happen just as much as the other way round) but feels too much like the general public will look down on him and the legal system won't back him up. Now, that, thats prejudice, but alas, you know we are men, we can take it.

And as a point to note, the single mother who lived next door to me for most of my life had better living conditions than I ever did. Also, my sister, a young single mother doesn't do too bad for herself either. What do you base your fact on?

But such an issue, if there is anything very substantial to it, pales in comparison to women's issues past and present.

Of course, the past was horrible, however, it is exactly that - the past. As for the right here and now?

My above post was not an attack on womans day, but rather a correction to another persons post.


[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

Your above post is giving me examples of particular experiences that may go against the grain. I understand that spousal abue goes both ways and but i also know that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that reveals men hurt women more than vice versa. We could also examine child sexual abuse as u would think that child victims may have similar reporting rates and men dominate the abusers category here as well. My comments are made based on years of research and if you would like me to direct you to some books and government websites i can do so. Furthermore, I find it absolutely ridiculous when people claim that women are no longer oppressed in western countries and that it is a thing of the past. I would give you a statistical rant but i think its fairly obvious.

If you had researched unbiasedly for 4 years, as you suggest, then you would realise that any "evidence" you have suggesting violence rates is absurd. Quite simply for the reason of prejudice that I meantioned above.

You seem to be losing this arguement all on your own though, so I won't go on for long. How on earth do you plan to argue that positive discrimination isn't serious by saying that more men hit women or rape children? It just doesn't follow. You are just saying the most controversial, unrelated, issues in order to cloud the real arguement.

I direct you here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law

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Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!