Pro-life/Pro-choice poll

[Miz Manda]

What are people's opinions on this subject? I apologise if I've started a discussion that's been had before but I've never come across a discussion on these issues on the Sinner and I'm very curious to hear what people think. I imagine quite a few people here who've come across the Sinner more recently likewise haven't had a chance to contribute.

Quoting munchingfoo from 11:47, 3rd Apr 2006
Surely you should begin a thread by giving us your opinions?

I'm very much pro-life. Going by the poll it would seem that this isn't a widely held position (on the sinner at least). What I'm trying to do is get an idea of why people hold the opinions they do.

[munchingfoo]

Surely you should begin a thread by giving us your opinions?

Mine is that letting the woman decide (given a fit mental state) is the best of a stream of bad situations.

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Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[flarewearer]

It's better that a woman consciously chooses what goes on with her own body and its contents than anyone else does.

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[Rilla]

Thank Christ Paul is not here to post.

I am pro-choice.

The world is overpopulated enough as it is.

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Time Dedicated to You.

[Cain]

Quoting Rilla from 11:54, 3rd Apr 2006
I am pro-choice.

The world is overpopulated enough as it is.

That doesn't sound like one of the best reasons to be pro choice.

Are you against cancer research for the same reasons?


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I hold an element of surprise

[munchingfoo]

No, she's just a liberal hippy that says what all the other liberal hippies say.

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Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[Thackary]

You bastard

[DrAlex]

Well, I'll anticipate the Paul-esque post...

[s]Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Pro-choice.

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"Listen to DrAlex."-Polli
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100343

[Dave the Explosive Newt]

Pro-choice.

Firstly, the case of pregnancy after rape, which has always been the most compelling argument to terminate a pregnancy. I can't imagine anything more terrible than being a woman forced to carry the child of a man who had raped me and no-one should have to endure it.
However, I'm of the mind that there should be a cut-off point. I think it's currently 22 weeks, as medical opinion is that a foetus under that age cannot survive outside of its mother, although technology is always improving and I believe there have been reports of 19 week olds surviving. Personally, I'm inclined to take the 12th week as a cutoff as it's not until this stage that the foetus has developed recognised neural tissues capable (at least in theory) of some limited cognitive processes.

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Mmmm, cake.

[nighteyes]

pro-choice and will second the thank christ paul no longer haunts us.
surely we have had this debate on the sinner at least two or three times a year. i remember ranting at paul regarding this subject last year.

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i didnt say i was consistant, just right!

[Manic23]

I would tend to be pro-life, but I'm not a zealot who wants to assassinate those who disagree with me. Just my opinion like.

I await the mass of replies telling me why I'm so wrong with baited breath...

EDIT: A couple of points

1)I'm not for abortion being made illegal. Whilst I don't agree with it I can see why it has to be available in some circumstances

2) The reasons I'm against it are
- it just seems so final, especially when there are loads of couples out there wanting to adopt/foster
- It seems to be the quick fix solution for not having protected sex.

[richey]

I'm alright with the fact that abortions are legal and happy with the fact people can have them if they want...

...however I would never ever kill my own child. I could never live with it. So I am personally pro-life.

[househunter]

i personally understand and agree with manic23. why abort when adoption is another solution.
but saying that i still believe that the woman should have the choice. end of the day it is not an easy option for any sane woman to make.
it's her baby not societies. she'll have to live with her decision for the rest of her life.

i an writing this message on my phone so sorry about lack of capitals.

[Rilla]

Quoting Cain from 12:01, 3rd Apr 2006
That doesn't sound like one of the best reasons to be pro choice.
Are you against cancer research for the same reasons?

No, I'm not against cancer research for the same reason, Cain.

Slightly off topic, but I think that the western world has become obsessed with keeping people alive.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story ... 95,00.html
"We have banished death, a disturbing reminder of our ultimate impotence, from modern society. Old people no longer receive the respect they enjoyed in more traditional civilisations. Instead we push them out of sight into residential care. Death happens off-stage in hospices and nursing homes. And now, it seems, death is even becoming taboo in our hospitals; when we go to hospital we are meant to get better and meet government targets; we are not supposed to die there any more."
or, the more extreme case of Terri Schiavo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4406343.stm

Sorry, I know this is slightly off topic, but I felt I should explain my comment.

Manic23, I sympathise with your arguments - there is always the danger that people might use abortion as some sort of contraception.

However, I think that given an educated population, this can be avoided, and with proper counselling, and choices being offered to women, abortion should be just one of these legal choices on offer (along with adoption, foster care, etc), with support offered for all possibilities.

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Time Dedicated to You.

[Rufus]

Whilst I believe in Pro-choice, I also think that more should be done to prevent abortion being used as a method of birth control; there should be a limit to the amount of abortions that one woman can have.





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Hell smells of raw potatoes.

[Insight]

Quoting richey from 12:31, 3rd Apr 2006
...however I would never ever kill my own child.

VERY emotive, and possibly brutal language - do you not think that some girls who have had abortions may read that? I really disagree with phrases like that being bandied about in pro-life/choice debates.

Personally, though Pro-choice, I really feel the only people with any sort of valid opinion on this are the women who have been through it themselves. As a man, it's something I couldn't even *begin* to comprehend, let alone hold forth with judgements and/or moralistic views.

It's a horrible thing that's sometimes necessary. I've never known anyone to make the decision lightly, or be happy with the result (whether going through with it or not). Terribly grey area.

Like Dave, it would be preferable to have the cut-off brought back. However, in a great many cases, pregnancy is not discovered until the 14th or 15th weeks. Week 18 was proposed a few years back, but deemed unworkable...I forget why.



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SRC Member for Sexualities & Genders

[Sid]

Many will disagree, but we are all entitled to our opinions.

I'm pro-life. There are certain circumstances where abortion would be the first choice, but I still maintain that the unborn child has rights, they never asked to be there. It's not the mothers choice to make. I've heard that some girls use abortion as a contraceptive method (and that's from a reputable source which has to remain nameless). However, we live in a society where abortion is accepted, although barely palatable, and I do believe that it should remain for the reason that underground abortion clinics will come about and endanger the lives of girls who need help. However, as someone mentioned before the number of weeks should be brought down form 22, 22 is just ridiculous!

The pro-life, pro-choice debate is a very difficult one, but if people were careful then there wouldn't have to be a debate. However, in the instance of rape, I still believe that the woman should carry the pregnancy on, (it's no fault of the child), she can give the child up for adoption. What people forget is that the child is still half hers, even though the circumstances are excruciating. Not everything in life is easy.

I have never been in the situation myself and I don't what I would do. I'm sure I'd be very scared, but hopefully I'd have the strength to do the right thing, and to be honest I think I would. I couldn't live the rest of my life with blood on my hands.

[Miz Manda]

Rilla, I agree with you on quite a few of those points but I gues I've taken them to a slightly differnet conclusion.

Slightly off topic, but I think that the western world has become obsessed with keeping people alive.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story ... 95,00.html
"We have banished death, a disturbing reminder of our ultimate impotence, from modern society. Old people no longer receive the respect they enjoyed in more traditional civilisations. Instead we push them out of sight into residential care. Death happens off-stage in hospices and nursing homes. And now, it seems, death is even becoming taboo in our hospitals; when we go to hospital we are meant to get better and meet government targets; we are not supposed to die there any more."
or, the more extreme case of Terri Schiavo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4406343.stm

Sorry, I know this is slightly off topic, but I felt I should explain my comment.

Manic23, I sympathise with your arguments - there is always the danger that people might use abortion as some sort of contraception.

However, I think that given an educated population, this can be avoided, and with proper counselling, and choices being offered to women, abortion should be just one of these legal choices on offer (along with adoption, foster care, etc), with support offered for all possibilities.

I agree that death is just another stage in the natural course of events, but it should be just that, natural. There is a huge difference between allowing someone to die naturally and artificially aiding the process, i.e. abortion, euthanasia.

Also to your point about an educated society, we've been bombarded with information about contraception, STDs and everything else for years. Condoms and other forms of birth control are more easily accessible than they've ever been before, yet abortion rates continue to rise.

In cases of crisis pregnancy abortion is offered a fix-all solution despite the emotional and psychological after-effects. A case in point is the leaflet offered to women by Student Support for an local organization, the name of which escapes me at the moment. Its listed services include ( I don't have this to hand so the wording might be a bit off):
-Preganancy testing
-Impartial counselling
-Post-abortion support
Nothing is offered in between those last two items.

[Rilla]

As Insight said very well, this is NOT a black/white issue.
Noone ever said the decision was easy.
Noone ever said it was a nice situation.

And emotive language should be avoided (though this is generally impossible, given the emotions involved with the situation).

But please, Sid - "Blood on your hands"?

Using language like this screams of judgement on people.

And it's very, very easy to judge people from a righteous position.


Eugh, I hate these arguments.



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Time Dedicated to You.

[Miz Manda]

Why isn't this a black and white issue?