When I was 11

[Lodestone]

Senethro--I'm agreeing, not mocking. I always bold usernames, and I'm incensed enough to be over-italicising without parody.

[Lodestone]

Mutilation as a punishment issued to minors? Little harsh. Surely the girl is just as guilty?

Or more so, according to dunqn.

I can;t believe how quick people can be to pass moral sentence on the basis of a piece of journ alism. We don't know the details; we don't know who's "to blame".

[Lodestone]

Most of the country is like this. These people no doubt live in stinking poverty. Yes, the parents will be scummy, shitty neds. But they're probably happy being on the dole, leeching off society, having a grandchild at 34 is probably an achievement to them - presumably the only thing they ever have, or ever will achieve.

My aunt was a grandmother at 35. Her husband is a lawyer; her father was a judge; my mother is a social worker; my father is a teacher. Teenage pregnancy is not isolated to the people stuck in the poorest parts of the country, nor to people on the dole, or working at the bottom of the employment pile. Strife can occur in any family anywhere.

[Mehmsy]

"Her 34-year-old mother told the newspaper: "I'm not ashamed of my daughter at all - in fact, I'm proud of her for keeping her baby."

The newspaper said the girl smokes up to 20 cigarettes a day."

Whoa now, easy on the parenting skills there, Martha Stewart!

[Steveo]

"Girls from the poorest backgrounds are ten times more likely to become teenage mothers than girls from professional backgrounds."

- The Department of Health

[hr]

Set your goals way too high so I can laugh when you fail.

[Haunted]

The bleeding heart know-it-all liberals never cease to amaze.
Even when the horrible truth is staring them in the face they still maintain that everything is peachy and that the middle class with their outdated ways are the problem.

Society, as it is, is a fucking shambles.
Sod all your hippy idealism, some people just have to be told how to live.

[hr]

Now with 100% more corn

[Thalia]

Dunqn - what you don't seem to understand is that at 11 years old her consent means *nothing*. The fact that she says that she wanted to have sex and that it was just a one night stand means *nothing*. She was too young to make an informed decision about sex according to our legal system. And that 15 year old boy was old enough to understand that but he chose to ignore it. There is no defense for having sex with someone under 13 and it's automatically treated as rape for exactly that reason, whether the girl thinks it was or not.

[hr]

The shadow proves the sunshine...

[Senethro]

Fine. Thats it.

You know who else wanted to dictate to people people how to live? Thats right!

Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,
Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,
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Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,
Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,
Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,
Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,
Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,
Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,Hitler.jpg,

[Malcolm]

If you want to be shocked all over again...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina

Bloody hell.

[Roulette]

Vows are spoken
To be broken
Feelings are intense
Words are trivial
Pleasures remain
So does the pain
Words are meaningless
And forgettable

All I ever wanted
All I ever needed
Is here in my arms
Words are very unnecessary
They can only do harm

Enjoy the silence

[hr]

If you're the "1337 M4574!!!111", then I'm the Weirdo in the corner playing air guitar to her iPod.
Lame, but cooler than you.

[maz]

The girl herself said she didn't think she would get pregnant since it was her first time. She obviously wasn't up to speed on sex education, although she/the 15 year old obviously knew enough to go through with the thing. I don't think anyone in this situation is entirely blameless.
1, The girl herself has to take some responsibility
2, The boy, at 4 years older than her should be held accountable. I used to get at thick ear at home for letting my little brother do something stupid - cos I was older and should know better. This kid should have at least sat through 4 more years of sex ed at school. He should have known he was acting like an idiot, no matter how much buckie he'd consumed
3, The parents have to take some of the blame, they didn't know where there kids were, and what they were doing, or if they did, then they didn't do anything to stop it. They also should make sure that their kids are aware of all the responsibility that comes with having sex. If you aren't grown up enough to walk into the chemist and buy a condom you aren't grown up enough to be getting jiggy behind the bikeshed.
4, The schools/government are also to blame, because there is clearly a lack of education here, on several levels.

There is a difference between telling people how to live and protecting their interests. This girl is damaging herself and the baby by being pregnant so young, and smoking throughout the preganancy. Doctors have stated that there are many risks involved with being pregnant whilst not fully developed. That's not to mention the additional things that this girl is missing out on, by becoming a mother this young. She hasn't had a chance to complete her own childhood, or her education. She's going to miss out on a lot of things her peers will be doing, cos she's stuck in changing nappies.

[hr]

Well, I bet that you look good on the dancefloor

Go see my friend on his band's UK tour. 24 March - 7 April
http://www.thehint.com

[thebrookster]

Quoting Malcolm from 19:05, 12th May 2006
If you want to be shocked all over again...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina

Bloody hell.

God help us all!!

[JM]

ok, im not backing up dunqn entirely but the girl in question does, by the sound of it, resemble the stereotype of a ned.

but that doesnt mean that only ned girls get pregnant, im sure theres upper class girls who go and do the same. (ps: the "class" argument is getting really drawn out now, its in almost every thread)

granted they shouldnt be having sex at that age, when they probably know fine well that they cannot handle the possible outcomes but having a baby may not ruin her life entirely, theres grown ups that have kids and are unable to handle them - and they may not be neds either.

point being (yeah there is one!!) not all people who get pregnant are neds, nor will their lifes be screwed up from that moment on. no doubt the baby will be in the papers throughout its life ie:birth, starting school etc and we'll see, through time, how she is coping

EDIT: Lina (above): fucking hell!!! 5??? seriously?


http://youngest_mother.tripod.com/

she was menstruating at 8 months old? fully formed breasts at 4. thats scary!

[hr]

"Life can be full of many problems"; this can be translated into "tormenting you is how the big man gets his jollies"

[Fozzy Bear]

Quoting Thalia from 18:53, 12th May 2006
Dunqn - what you don't seem to understand is that at 11 years old her consent means *nothing*. The fact that she says that she wanted to have sex and that it was just a one night stand means *nothing*. She was too young to make an informed decision about sex according to our legal system. And that 15 year old boy was old enough to understand that but he chose to ignore it. There is no defense for having sex with someone under 13 and it's automatically treated as rape for exactly that reason, whether the girl thinks it was or not.

[hr]

The shadow proves the sunshine...

i was just wondering. how many 15 year old boys are actually AWARE that consent is meaningless when the girl is under a certain age (and what that age actually is?).

as far as i knew, consent is consent. granted, if it was a 30 year old man and an 11 year old girl things would be different, but it's not. they were both underage and its more likely a 30 year old would know that there is a minimum age for consent.

Thalia: did you know at that age (or even at 15) that consent is meaningless until you reach a certain age (and if yes, what that age was)?

[hr]

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve immortality through not dying." - Woody Allen

[maz]

We were told in school I'm sure that sex was illegal under the age of 16 for girls and under the age of 14 for boys. I remember trying to work out why it was different. Not sure when we were told this. Probably about S3, I don't remember very comprehensive sex ed before that, and certainly none at primary school. This girl is supposedly in the first year at high school, which means that she would have barely started high school when she got pregnant. Perhaps sex ed should start at a younger age???

[hr]

Well, I bet that you look good on the dancefloor

Go see my friend on his band's UK tour. 24 March - 7 April
http://www.thehint.com

[BeccaLydia]

Quoting maz from 19:30, 12th May 2006
Perhaps sex ed should start at a younger age???

My sex education covered the basics (reproduction, gestation periods, girls' periods etc) at age 8/9. Then it was covered again at the school I moved to (I missed it since I moved in the middle of a school year) in year 7 (age 11/12). Then gone over yet again, but with contraception also in years 8/9 (age 12-14). Then just to make sure we'd covered the biology we did that again in year 11 (age 16) and had a seperate contraception talk that year too by the school nurse.

All in all my schools covered in all pretty comprehensively! However, my mum also gave me a great book about it all after the first classes I had and was always there to anwser questions. I do think that education like this is important, but when to teach it is difficult to decide. I didn't want to know about it all when I had those first classes and since I am Catholic, my mum was quite angry that she'd not been given the option to take me out of the classes.

I'm not sure that 8/9 is the right age to start talking about it all, since it can put ideas into kids' heads that they may not have had otherwise. On the otherhand, if you leave it later then you run the risk of having many more young mothers due to a lack of education. Can't really win!

In this case, I would blame the parents - their child is a minor, under their legal care and therefore it's their responsibility. She should never have had that kind of freedom at that age. If she's too young to give consent, which she is, then it's the parents' fault for not taking care of her - neglect?

[hr]

http://facebook.com/p.php?id=37100244&l

[Thackary]

Now there's an interesting one.

Should catholic parents of catholic children have the option to withdraw their children from such classes?

What if the law states that children must receive education on contraception?

[BeccaLydia]

Quoting thackary from 19:54, 12th May 2006
Now there's an interesting one.

Should catholic parents of catholic children have the option to withdraw their children from such classes?

What if the law states that children must receive education on contraception?

At my second school, my parents were given the option to withdraw me from the contraception talk and they left the decision up to me - I liked that I was allowed to choose (my mum didn't get the choice and didn't find out about any of it til her nursing training...unbelievable but true). Things are changing now anyway since more methods of contraception are becoming acceptable for Catholics, so maybe all kids should attend talks/classes on it. It can be dangerous for them not to, but on the otherhand it's part of our religion. Think my school covered it all though, since we were shown the Catholic 'counting method'. Before anyone states the obvious, I know it's not a great method, but at least they made the effort to inform us of methods that can be used (to varying degrees of usefulness!) by all.

[hr]

http://facebook.com/p.php?id=37100244&l

[Lyeta]

This girl may have been well aware of the risks but she apparently got pregnant when on a "night out in Edinburgh" when she had unprotectied sex...suggesting she knew she was supposed to use some form of protection but in her drunken state, didn't. Surely a drunken 11 year old is more the issue?

[Bitterandtwisted]

At the risk of derailing the thread, what makes the rhythm method acceptable to Catholics? I thought condoms were held to be wrong because sex was only for procreation, not recreation. If that's the case, it surely doesn't matter whether the contracepion is natural or artificial; the intention is still sex for pleasure.

[hr]

Look at that. Look at that. "Accident Blackspot"? These aren't accidents. They're throwing themselves into the road gladly. Throwing themselves into the road to escape all this hideousness. Throw yourself into the road, darling - you haven't got a chance.