Why is the NUS such a bad idea?

[alex]

Well, i remember the debate last year which consisted of everyone telling me that NUS is shit , and this other one is much better. Needless to say , i voted NUS, i don't like being told what to do. But , slightly late , i wondered , why is the NUS as evil as the US? is it because they own the same initials sort of?

I mean , i don't think our union is great on facilities or price , and before you say we're a small university , so what...we deserve more

replies welcome

[James Baster]

Marco Biagi on why:

http://www.thesinner.co.uk/article-view.php?article=193

Kevin Head, for balance:

http://www.thesinner.co.uk/article-view.php?article=189

The Unions stance against it at the time:

http://www.thesinner.co.uk/article-view.php?article=253

And just so you know which side I was on, heres how I reported the result:

http://www.thesinner.co.uk/article-view.php?article=261

Quite frankly to, there was enought information on NUS around at the time. All you had to do was look. This applies to ever election and issue this uni has voted on: the poster round town where all kind of crap, information wise, but if you looked deeper you could find tons of stuff.

[hr][s]Some reporters came to visit, and asked [the 19th century US public speaker and political figure Robert G. Ingersoll] about the rumours that his son had gotten drunk during a wild party and fell unconscious under the table. Ingersoll paused for effect, then started: "Well, first of all, he didn't fall under the table. And he wasn't actually unconscious. For that matter, he didn't fall. And there wasn't any party, and he didn't have anything to drink.... And, by the way, I don't have a son."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/ ... 27721.html [/s]

[Al]

I was reading alex's post when a thought struck me - are universities dumbing down? Hmmm.

But to answer the question:

"Why is the NUS such a bad idea?"

It just is. Easy.

[hr]"Life is a horizontal fall"

[alex]

Our prices are as cheap, or cheaper, than most NUS Unions. Joining NUS would just restrict what we could sell (no more Carlsberg at 1.20 a pint)--- there is no more carlsberg at 1.20 a pint , there's only crappy tennants at 1.40 a pint , and that wouldnt have been the case if people weren't getting pissed off at the start of the year...i remember the union charging 1.70 a pint.....

personally , i feel that the union doesnt have anything to offer me , except cheap drinks , and it's failing on that issue compared to other uni's ---

[JJ]

[s]Unregisted User alex wrote on 22:50, 14th Jan 2003:
personally , i feel that the union doesnt have anything to offer me , except cheap drinks , and it's failing on that issue compared to other uni's ---


What would you like your union to offer you, and what does it lack in comparison to most other student unions?

[hr]
Don't let your degree get in the way of your education - John Cleese (former Rector, St. Andrews)

[barr]

what i would like is a PROPER smoke FREE area... i even saw staff on duty smoking in it last week.

and is the sound on those games machines getting anoying again??? i think it might be.

[Guest]

jj, i think i was quite clear in what i want the union to offer me. c-h-e-a-p-e-r drinks and more events. it needs to become more popular within st andrews as most unions are. unlike other universities that i have visited (dundee to name a clear example) the union is the centre, the meeting point if you will . our union is clearly not that, and that is what i want to change.

alex

[Al]

"..the union is the centre, the meeting point if you will . our union is clearly not that, and that is what i want to change."

Except for the hundreds of students for whom the Union, quite clearly, is the place to meet.

Let us face facts.

1)Joining the NUS, apart from being a remarkable shot in the foot, would result in a price increase not a price decrease.

2) The student population at St Andrews is too diverse for the Union to be able to attract every student into using it.

3) Many Union, and non-Union, events are just not supported. Therefore this means people stick to organising the kind of events that are going to be popular. Unfortunately, this means pretty much the same sort of thing week in and week out. The fault lies not with the organisers but the people who are too apathetic to try something new.

[hr]"Oh sing sing sing
For the dying of the day
Sing for the flames that will rip through here
And the smoke that will carry us away"

[Thackary]

Hear hear.

[JJ]

[s]Unregisted User alex wrote on 15:11, 20th Jan 2003:
jj, i think i was quite clear in what i want the union to offer me. c-h-e-a-p-e-r drinks and more events.

OK - lets try and look at this logically.

Am I right in saying that it is almost universally accepted that entering the NUS will not result in cheaper beer. For the union to get cheaper beer, it has to do one of two things:

1) Find another bulk buying consortium that enables it to purchase beer cheaper than the do at present - and then pass this discount on.

2) Rejig its figures to budget for less income from the bar, and consequently less spend on other aspects of the Union.

Option 1 appears to be impossible - I don't think there is another consortium that gives the discounts and the flexibility of the existing consortium (Northern Services). Option 2 is, I suppose, viable, but the question then is where would you make savings, or where could you make increased profits to cover the shortfall in revenue that the bar would being in if it sold drinks cheaper.


"..the union is the centre, the meeting point if you will . our union is clearly not that, and that is what i want to change."


Al has, in his usual eloquence, highlighted the relevant point here. I think the Union is the social centre for a significant group of students, and I would suggest no more so and no less so than at any other university. It is always possible to increase the number of students that would make it their social centre - but the next question is how? What could the Union do differently that would draw in more people. It is the cheapest bar in town so it has cornered the market in that respect. What else could it do to draw in a greater number of students?



[hr]
Don't let your degree get in the way of your education - John Cleese (former Rector, St. Andrews)

[Prophet Tenebrae]

The real question is - do the students that use the union really want former Union-snubbing snobs coming in and spoiling it for them. I'm guessing the answer is no.

[Guest]

yes , after re reading my original post i feel that i might have been quite ignorant about the union. i just feel that it's ignoring our needs , and it needs to change. there are ways the union can save money , including the bouncers they hire on a thurs , fri , sat night. are they necessary along with the other union staff there?? they have 2 on a thurssday, 5 on a friday!! 5!! and 2 on a saturday and there has been no problems for a long time....

alex

[Guest]

al , when you say hundreds of students use it as a meeting point...whendo these hundreds of students go there apart from a friday and saturday night , when everywhere else is heaving as well...just a thought

[The_Farwall]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 14:08, 22nd Jan 2003:
al , when you say hundreds of students use it as a meeting point...whendo these hundreds of students go there apart from a friday and saturday night , when everywhere else is heaving as well...just a thought

Every lunchtime when lectures are on and later in the afternoon, 4-5ish. Nip in about 1ish to witness the queue for Beatons stretching round to the bar and all the tables in the place being taken.

[hr]
[s]"Oh yeah, I'm a masterpiece of self destruction"[/s]

[The_Farwall]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 13:53, 21st Jan 2003:
yes , after re reading my original post i feel that i might have been quite ignorant about the union. i just feel that it's ignoring our needs , and it needs to change.

Ok, so what are your needs? To me the union offers me pretty much all I could expect, and more than anywhere else in St Andrews. It has drinks I can afford, food I can afford, games machines, TV, music, the only regular music-and-place-to-dance arrangement in town (several of them in fact, counting the various bops and different music-societies events). It has floors I can stand on, walls I can lean on, tables I can put stuff down on and chairs I can put me down on. It has a convenient travel office, student support etc...
What exactly do you count as your 'needs' (rather than just plain wants, if we're going down that road than a free helicopter taxi service would be nice) that it isn't catering to?

[hr]
[s]"Oh yeah, I'm a masterpiece of self destruction"[/s]

[Al]

"yes , after re reading my original post i feel that i might have been quite ignorant about the union. i just feel that it's ignoring our needs, and it needs to change."

But as Farwall has pointed out - you don't seem to know what you want the Union to do. Certainly, apart from it not providing cheap enough drinks, you haven't said how it is ignoring your needs.

"there are ways the union can save money, including the bouncers they hire on a thurs , fri , sat night. are they necessary along with the other union staff there?? they have 2 on a thurssday, 5 on a friday!! 5!! and 2 on a saturday and there has been no problems for a long time...."

Could it be, I wonder, that the reason why there haven't been any problems for a long time is precisely because of the large numbers of bouncers and other staff?

"al , when you say hundreds of students use it as a meeting point...whendo these hundreds of students go there apart from a friday and saturday night , when everywhere else is heaving as well...just a thought"

I don't want to needlessly repeat Farwall's answer, so I'll ask you a question - how often do you go into the Union during the day? I don't think it can be very often because then you'd know just how busy a place it can be.

[hr]"Oh sing sing sing
For the dying of the day
Sing for the flames that will rip through here
And the smoke that will carry us away"

[stan]

the only real improvements the union needs to make is afew more cute barmaids and a big screen with 'decent' resolution. outside that it offers everything a meeting place can offer!!!

[Guest]

in answer to your response.

i go to the union every day and normally eat lunch in there. it is quiet, far too quiet and only gets busy between 1 and 2, and thats only because of beatons.

the bouncers are practically unneccessary. i don't want to go into reasons why, mainly because i'll be putting my foot in it but i feel that they are not needed, and the union should employ their own ddor staff rather than hiring them out from an external company for 10 pounds an hour.

The union just seems to be that it could make a lot more money (or save money) and plow it back in to improve certain aspects or lower prices, it just isn't bothered.

[JJ]

When I was involved in the Union we were criticised for not having 'professional' door staff - the staff that we employed were students and they were often put in difficult situations by their 'friends'; who were drunk and taking advantage of the difficult position the student doorstaff found themselves in.

Seems to be that the Union cannot win either way. But Alex is clearly not happy with something - however the powers that be can only recitfy this problem if he can detail EXACTLY what it is.

[hr]Don't let your degree get in the way of your education - John Cleese (former Rector, St. Andrews)

[Rennie]

true JJ, but if he knew exactly what it was that he wanted, surely there would be no problem. I mean, who doesn't want to see changes in the Union..

And, on another point, if the NUS is such a bad idea, howcome so many universities through the country are affiliated with it? Surely they ALL can't be run by a bunch of idiots...can they?