Sexual Assault

[flarewearer]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edi ... 416602.stm

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[Malcolm]

Absolutely shocking.

Like I said, that's got to be why the police were going in and out of places, taking CCTV tapes.

They haven't caught anyone - think of the numbers of young women wandering around town each night, with the possibility of that guy still being out there somewhere...

It doesn't bear thinking about. I hope she's OK.

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http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37105257

[lauraelizabeth]

when out alone, ladies, you should carry something like a pencil in your handbag. its sharp enough to cause some damage, and if stuck into a temple or an eye can be a lifesaver. the police wouldn't be able to touch you. if you carried a knife you would get into trouble because you had the intention to use it against someone. however if you say you had a pencil in your bag or your hand, and you lashed out because you thought your life or someone else's was in peril, you walk free.

also: shout "fire", not "help" because with a fire everyone wants to be the hero, however if you shout help people don't want to put themselves in danger..

walk with your head up and don't look as though you are lost or uncertain. you're less likely to be attacked if you look as though you can defend yourself

the main areas to hit at if you're attacked are: eyes, nose, ears (hit both at the same time to create a vacuum and thus buy yourself some time) throat and groin.

avoid walking alone and in the dark. don't let anyone walk you home unless you know them very well. once they get to your door it is easy to force their way inside and then you've much less of a chance of being helped.

don't put yourself in a worse situation. if someone tries to get you in a car or down an alley, this is potentially a very bad situation and you should fight tooth and nail to escape from it. if possible draw as much attention to yourself as you can when in a dangerous situation so that people can notice you and perhaps help.

[Lyeta]

Maybe I read this wrong but it doesnt sound like this was an attack in a dark alley type attack (i.e. carrying a sharp object and walking confidently probably wouldn't have helped much). It sounds to me like a group of girls met a guy who walked back with them to their house, chatting away like you would. He got INTO the house (i.e. they invited him in?) and then the attack happened. Don't invite random guys you meet on the street into your house is probably more the point.

[TCT]

Quoting Lyeta from 17:00, 8th Oct 2006
Maybe I read this wrong but it doesnt sound like this was an attack in a dark alley type attack (i.e. carrying a sharp object and walking confidently probably wouldn't have helped much). It sounds to me like a group of girls met a guy who walked back with them to their house, chatting away like you would. He got INTO the house (i.e. they invited him in?) and then the attack happened. Don't invite random guys you meet on the street into your house is probably more the point.

Yes, this is different to the types of attack which occurred in 1998 and in 2003; but the advice lauraelizabeth gives is still generally useful.

[lauraelizabeth]

it makes sense to take extra care though when something like this has happened and the ass wipe is still walking around.. and if the girl was too drunk to know any better, its highly likely the guy was able to force her to let him into the flat

[TCT]

Quoting lauraelizabeth from 18:47, 8th Oct 2006
it makes sense to take extra care though when something like this has happened and the ass wipe is still walking around.. and if the girl was too drunk to know any better, its highly likely the guy was able to force her to let him into the flat

Possible but not 'highly likely'. In fact, in many cases, assault is carried out once an attacker has been let into the home at the victim's request. A significant number of sexual assaults are done by someone the victim knew. We don't know all the facts so I suppose jumping to conclusions is unhelpful.

[lauraelizabeth]

my cousin's at uni in sheffield, and her flatmate got very drunk one night. a guy attacked her on her way home and tried to rape her. he was stopped by another guy who insisted on taking the drunk girl home. the second guy, on getting back to the flat, pushed his way in, and then HE tried to rape her, and the only reason she wasn't raped at all that night was because my cousin woke up and ran in and he ran off... scary stuff.

[TCT]

Quoting lauraelizabeth from 21:14, 8th Oct 2006
my cousin's at uni in sheffield, and her flatmate got very drunk one night. a guy attacked her on her way home and tried to rape her. he was stopped by another guy who insisted on taking the drunk girl home. the second guy, on getting back to the flat, pushed his way in, and then HE tried to rape her, and the only reason she wasn't raped at all that night was because my cousin woke up and ran in and he ran off... scary stuff.

Unfortunate and alarming, but rare. As I say, we don't know what happened here.

[theonlyone]

bloody hell! in st andrews!! why cant every man be decent and honourable, it would make life so much easier and safer!! its ridiculous that we should have to go around with sharpe, but not lethal wepons in our pocket to protect our selves, as the song goes "where have all the good men gone?!" men you should be ashamed of yourselves, of course i no you are not all like this, but its still the male race!

[Cain]

about this time five years ago there were two assaults on young women in St Andrews.

Those of you who have been in town for a while will remember when there used to be bushes in the park above Physics.

The town is relatively safe compared to bigger towns or cities, but you should never, ever, give yourself the impression that it is a safe place and that 'things like that don't happen here'.

The moral, take the same precautions that you normally would if you're out and about. You don't need to be super-paranoid and trust no one. Just be sensible.


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I hold an element of surprise

[TCT]

Quoting theonlyone from 23:10, 8th Oct 2006
men you should be ashamed of yourselves, of course i no you are not all like this, but its still the male race!

What a Glenda Slagg-style rant (see Eyes passim). I assume you are female, and on your logic I therefore think you should be ashamed for the acts of Eve, Rose West, Lucretia Borgia, Daisy de Melker and anyone else you care to throw in.

[Fawksie]

Pleased to see I'm not the only one who was reminded of Glenda Slagg.

[nighteyes]

Girls - Free attack alarms from the union.

I gave out a fair few and dont understand girls that dont take them. And even guys. At the very least if you can pull the pin and shove it to your attackers ear chances are you could burst his/her eardrum. And those things are LOUD, someone would be bound to hear it go off.

I got very angry at a girl who declared that she didnt need an alarm because she grew up in a city where there were dozens of rapes per month and so did not need one here.
I told her that that would be cold comfort if she was one of the girls attacked in St Andrews. Even though they are thankfully few - reported at least.

She still did not take one and her attitude was hostile towards me for even suggesting that she take one.

Her logic confuzed me and angered me greatly. I carry an alarm and I grew up in Glasgow. That does not mean that I am not wary of walking about in St Andrews at night myself.

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i didnt say i was consistant, just right!

[Wowbagger the Infinitely]

Quoting lauraelizabeth from 15:19, 8th Oct 2006
when out alone, ladies, you should carry something like a pencil in your handbag. its sharp enough to cause some damage, and if stuck into a temple or an eye can be a lifesaver. the police wouldn't be able to touch you. if you carried a knife you would get into trouble because you had the intention to use it against someone. however if you say you had a pencil in your bag or your hand, and you lashed out because you thought your life or someone else's was in peril, you walk free.

Putting a pencil through someone's eye or temple could well kill them if it reaches the brain. So if you think you can live with yourself after killing someone - even in self-defence - then by all means follow lauraelizabeths advice. Otherwise try something a little less lethal.

[angel_kohaku]

You can stick it in their leg.

Also if they actually succeed in raping you, could you live with THAT?

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I have always depended on the kindness of strangers

[Malcolm]

As a bloke, I'll tell you this:

Go for the balls first, or the stomach, or both. Use your knees, or physically grab them. It'll send him reeling so that you can them whack him in the face, kick him to the ground, and run.

Or, if you're me, keep kicking him. Chances are you'll never get pursued for it... he's going to have to explain to the police what was happening when he got attacked, then they'll catch up with you and prove his story wrong...

Either way, would-be rapist loses out.

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http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37105257

[Frank]

I got attacked by a rather rowdy lot or (relatively) useless neds. Being the fairly fat bastard that I am, I was able to fend them off, phone the police, discuss for a wee while about them to the police whilst being attacked, and still end up running after them without trying to fight them or run away.

No, I'm not trying to be a net-warrior or Macho: I'm saying that even 16yr Olds can try and attack 20 year olds in St Andrews. I heartily agree with what most folks have said.

From Lauraelizabeth for example: Carry a sharp enough pencil or pen if you feel you'd be prepared to use it. If not, walk high and confident: don't give the impression of vulnerability. If you can't do that then for gods sakes don't be alone with people you're not too sure of.

Even then, as said before: If you're not prepared to fight do not allow yourself to be in a situation that puts you at excess risk. Walking across a road: fair enough. Walking from the Castle Tavern to past Morrissons on your own, at two in the morning: Don't.

The simple message is be as safe as you can. I'd never ever suggest that someone was 'asking' for it: but there are certain methods you can take to avoid risk. Sometimes you feel you don't want to do that, fair enough- but be sure you're willing to face the potential consequences. They may not be your fault, but you're still likely to blame yourself for it.

To echo Malcolm's original post: It's downrigh abhorrent. I won't pretend to try and have any particular intellect on any of the matters(in spite of "Frank's Handy Advice" TM) but it is simple enough: never is this the victims fault.

To guys: It's not about chauvanism, or chivalry...or feminism striking back against us hard done by brutes etc: It's simple truth, if someone's drunk/beyond their facultires/distraught/etc you see them home and nothing more. If someone's 'out of their mind', don't treat them as if they're in their mind...

To everyone: Again, it's shocking. But for anything's sake, please be careful! I've seen enough problems in my (short) time that could have been avoided with just a spatula full of thought, I'd hate to hear of more.

As said before: I just hope the poor girl/woman/lady is okay. It's downright abhorrent.

Frank

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"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."

[lauraelizabeth]

[/quote]

Putting a pencil through someone's eye or temple could well kill them if it reaches the brain. So if you think you can live with yourself after killing someone - even in self-defence - then by all means follow lauraelizabeths advice. Otherwise try something a little less lethal.[/quote]

when it's a question of being raped or even worse, i wouldn't hesitate to take necessary measures to free myself. if the guy didn't want to be hurt then he shouldn't be trying to rape in the first place. and if you aim for the stomach, and the guy has a six pack, it does nothing. aim for the windpipe or the groin, those are the best areas...

[Big X]

jesus christ, u've clearly given this a lot of thought!!! i hope no one tries to get off with u in the bop......

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"Never apologise for showing feeling, in doing so you apologise for truth" Disraeli