Pinochet dies

[exnihilo]

Quoting Humphrey from 13:31, 14th Dec 2006
Final point. If the Cuban welfare state is so great then why to 20% of the Cuban population live in Miami?.

I'm guessing it's not to be closer to a good doctor.

[Senethro]

Zing! ooooh, america got burned

Seriously, as soon as Castro's more pragmatical brother takes over things in Cuba should improve. The embargo was only ever against Fidel and the younger brother has expressed interests in closer political and economic relations.

[Irish Frank]

20% of the Cuban population probably lives in Miami for political reasons, such as not wanting to live under a repressive dictatorship.

I never tried to defend the Cuban system of government, simply point out the high quality of its welfare state compared to its general paucity of resources. This point still stands. Issues you raise like lack of cleanliness and poor access to medication sounds oddly reminiscent of our own NHS.

No welfare state is perfect, Humphrey, and highlighting defects and problems in the Cuban version doesn't detract from my original point. I never set out to say the Cuban welfare state was not overall free of problems, but still an achievement to have the healthcare system it does.

[Humphrey]

Quoting Irish Frank from 17:10, 14th Dec 2006
No welfare state is perfect, Humphrey, and highlighting defects and problems in the Cuban version doesn't detract from my original point. I never set out to say the Cuban welfare state was not overall free of problems, but still an achievement to have the healthcare system it does.

Frank, I see your point. The resilience of the Castro regime is indeed impressive. I wouldn’t call it an achievement but since this interpretation is highly subjective there seems little point arguing it.

The reason I laboured the point is that the Cuban welfare state seems to be admired and respected by a certain strain of academia – some even suggest that we should emulate it (god forbid). Meanwhile, the testimony of Cuban exiles, Cuban dissidents and Cuban nationals who are temporarily working abroad on assignments tell us how dreadful it is. Things are made more difficult by the fact that little or no reliable data comes out of Cuba (career advancement depends entirely on getting results so there is a tendency to fudge the figures throughout the chain of command). When people from the outside visit, they are restricted to certain areas and unsurprisingly the image that comes back is often very rosy and romanticised. A lot don’t even question the official version of events they are carefully spoon fed.

The picture that emerges is one of a two-tier health system where party officials and health tourists get great healthcare while the vast majority of Cubans do not. What the Healthcare system does seem to do well is ‘preventative medicine’, but really this is a clever spin. They have to prevent disease happening because they don’t have the ability to treat them when they do happen. For example, if you have HIV in Cuba you get forcefully separated from your partner and locked up in a ‘sanatorium’ (aka prison). The literacy rate is good, but in my opinion this doesn’t outweigh the distasteful things in the education system like indoctrination. In addition, the welfare system has never supported itself, it has been propped up by Soviet – and now Venezuelan subsidies.

To make matters worse, the education and healthcare systems are used as the justification for the Cuban system, a government that has zero respect for human rights, extinguishes opposition and stifles commerce. The U.S. embargo has added, at most, relatively small increases in transportation costs (2-3%. The main problem is not the embargo but the lack of foreign currency due to the unwillingness to liberalize the economy, diversify the export base, and the need to pay off debts owed to its Japanese, European, and Latin American trading partners acquired during the years of abundant Soviet aid.

Of course the central question is whether Cuba would be better off if the revolution had not occurred. I would say unequivicably yes, but this conclusion involves so many what ifs that again there seems little point arguing it..


[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[MrGreedy]

Quoting Humphrey from 10:00, 15th Dec 2006
Meanwhile, the testimony of Cuban exiles, Cuban dissidents and Cuban nationals who are temporarily working abroad on assignments tell us how dreadful it is.

Just like those Iraqi exiles all told us about Saddam's WMD? I'm not saying you don't have a point, but don't switch off your critical faculty just because someone agrees with you.

(career advancement depends entirely on getting results so there is a tendency to fudge the figures throughout the chain of command)

Whereas in a liberal Western capitalist economy? Not sure I see your point here - the incentive to overstate ones own success is surely no greater in Cuba than anywhere else. Of course it might be that you're more likely to get away with it, but that's a different kettle of fish.

*BTW, I'm not stalking you H, but we really must catch up sometime.