Airline Price increase

[n01]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6301757.stm

I find this ridiculous as a student. Airfare for me is tough enough as it is.

Do we have a right to be upset at this... or is this aimed at the global warming situation?

Virgin is paying it for the customers though...

[gringo]

Quoting n01 from 10:47, 9th Feb 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6301757.stm

I find this ridiculous as a student. Airfare for me is tough enough as it is.

Do we have a right to be upset at this... or is this aimed at the global warming situation?

Virgin is paying it for the customers though...

why is "as a student" required?

[queen of scots]

What I find annoying is that BA have now reduced the amount of luggage you can take and are charging astronomic amounts for anything over that. And it's not as though you can take it with you in the cabin either - due to the stupid one bag policy. (This one really bugs me - I don't see why I can't take a handbag and a laptop when people can get away with small roller cases, just because that is one item!)

[hr]

Life is like a beautiful melody, only the lyrics are messed up.

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[flossy]

Quick question: I booked an internal flight after the new tax malarkey came in. Will the additional tax have been charged or will I still have to pay extra at the airport? (SleazyJet's website said v little on the subject).

[hr]

Nobody worries about kids listening to thousands, literally thousands of songs about heartbreak, rejection, pain, misery and loss. Did I listen to pop music because I was miserable? Or was I miserable because I listened to pop music?

[Gubbins]

If you booked it after the announcement (in December), you shouldn't have to pay.

[hr]

...but then again, that is only my opinion.

[Humphrey]

Quoting n01 from 10:47, 9th Feb 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6301757.stm

I find this ridiculous as a student. Airfare for me is tough enough as it is.

Do we have a right to be upset at this... or is this aimed at the global warming situation?

Virgin is paying it for the customers though...

Yes you do have a right to be pissed off.

Although the point of green taxes is that they are supposed to change peoples behaviour, this tax isn’t high enough to stop people from flying (It probably wont lead to the 5% reduction predicted and in fact flying is set to drastically increase). To actually prevent people from flying, air passenger duty would have to quadruple and it would be electoral suicide to bring that in.

Secondly, to an extent, airlines are being unfairly singled out here. The industry has made great strides to improve its engine efficiency and reduce its emissions and airlines only make up a small percentage of world emissions.

Thirdly, the reality is that mass migration and the global economy has meant that family groups are spread wide and the advent of outsourcing and globalisation has boosted economic links with the rest of the world. A tax on air travel puts the brakes on cheap holidays but it also puts an added cost on business and people who need to fly to be able to see the rest of their family. That I feel is a regressive step.

Fourthly, where is the money from this duty going?. When it was first announced the money was to be allocated to public transport and environmental measures but that turned out to be a piece of spin. In actuality the money goes straight into the treasury coffers. This is problematic because the government is also funding massive airport expansion. Airports act extremely well at regenerating communities and are therefore popular tools for ‘regeneration’. Of course it’s a bit of a contradiction to tell us we are evil and irresponsible for flying whilst funding the biggest airport expansion seen in this country since WWII but there you go. Its like telling people to use public transport whilst simultaneously hiking up the price of fares about inflation. But that’s eco-nazism for you, its not about solutions, its all about pointless self flagellation.

So basically it’s a dressed up stealth tax which doesn’t work and most of the money raised will go nowhere near anything environmental. The trouble with this government is that its is full of dangerous idiots like David Milliband (I haven't been this scared of a politician since Robert Mugabe). Once Blair is gone, the loonies will come out of the closet which is why I want old Tony to stay in as long as possible.


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http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[n01]

Quoting gringo from 10:52, 9th Feb 2007

why is "as a student" required?

dunno, because I am one? poor maybe? because students feel outraged when they have to pay extra for anything

i find that students are sometimes exempt from things like this!

[flarewearer]

Got a problem with an airline? Don't fly with them then! An airline isn't a benevolent public transport provider, it's a money making private enterprise and of course they are going to screw you for every penny they can. They answer to their shareholders (and perhaps, their baggage handlers) and not the oft suffering passenger. If you really must fly so often, then you just have to cough up. It isn't a right, it's a priviledge.

[hr]

[MrGreedy]

Quoting Humphrey from 12:40, 9th Feb 2007
Secondly, to an extent, airlines are being unfairly singled out here. The industry has made great strides to improve its engine efficiency and reduce its emissions and airlines only make up a small percentage of world emissions.

Humphrey, have you been listening to Michael O'Leary with your critical faculties turned off again?

You're right that the big problem is with the "stealth tax" perception, but hypothecating taxes opens up a whole can of worms. The treasury have been quite astute in avoiding any form of ringfencing as the thin end of the wedge.

[Paranoid]

Yet again our dearly loved government resorts to its favourite hobby....collecting taxes off the public to recover from the massive debts they're trying to hide!

I wouldn't mind paying if there was some evidence of improvement, but as the London congestion charge shows, the public transport in london today still cant handle a drop of snow in a day (with the London Underground director in particular quoted as saying "We shouldn't be expected to deal with snow in London!" ???)

My mate just got back from Japan where apparently taking a 90minute trip on a high-speed train from Tokyo took him into some snowy mountains for skiing (I forget the name), but the distance covered equalled that of London to York...I have a feeling I'll have to turn in my grave before we see that kind of service here...but if we got it I would certainly stop using flight as a mode of transport!

[hr]

..I've got this pain down all the diodes on my left side...

[The Bitter Historian]

You know, the train system in Britain isn't that bad. No, really. I use it a lot, ad it depends on what route you're taking. GNER are bloody awful, but the service is decent; Virgin trains run better with worse service. Such is life, I suppose. After experimenting with a cheap bus from London to Edinburgh, the experience was so dreadful that the train seems a bit of a luxury now. The expense is my real issue about the whole thing. Two years ago, it was possible to book in advance and get a cheap train if you were a bit flexible. That seems impossible now.

However: I am a rather sad case and believe in crazy things like doing my bit to help out the environment. One of these is a conscious choice not to fly internally and to avoid it when flying externally is possible. (If I ever went to Australia, I probably wouldn't get a boat...) I can't remember the exact figures, but I do feel uneasy about the growth in airline travel, and I'm quietly in agreement with higher taxes for airline travel if it could be proved to be an effective way to stop people flying when there's other equally legitimate ways of doing things. Before you all jump on me, I hasten to point out, I also think that simulteneously increasing air tax and airport runways is possibly one of the most synical and devious things I have seen this government do in a long line of letting down the environment.

[hr]

http://bitterhistorian.blogspot.com

Life. St Andrews. Budgeting. Some history. Mostly bitterness.

[novium]

www.thetrainline.co.uk (or something like that)- if you're booking a couple months in advance, you can go from london to edinburgh for 13 or so pounds.

pretty good, as far as I am concerned. Although i suppose it could have been even cheaper once.

[hr]

tamen ira procul absit, cum qua nihil recte fieri, nihil considerate potest.

[Gealle]

2/- perhaps.

Quoting novium from 01:42, 10th Feb 2007
www.thetrainline.co.uk (or something like that)- if you're booking a couple months in advance, you can go from london to edinburgh for 13 or so pounds.

pretty good, as far as I am concerned. Although i suppose it could have been even cheaper once.

[hr]

tamen ira procul absit, cum qua nihil recte fieri, nihil considerate potest.

[hr]

Funky flunky munky...

[Humphrey]

Quoting MrGreedy from 22:51, 9th Feb 2007

Quoting Humphrey from 12:40, 9th Feb 2007
Secondly, to an extent, airlines are being unfairly singled out here. The industry has made great strides to improve its engine efficiency and reduce its emissions and airlines only make up a small percentage of world emissions.

Humphrey, have you been listening to Michael O'Leary with your critical faculties turned off again?

You're right that the big problem is with the "stealth tax" perception, but hypothecating taxes opens up a whole can of worms. The treasury have been quite astute in avoiding any form of ringfencing as the thin end of the wedge.

Mr Greedy (aka Mark Knowles of Welwyn Garden City) you are quickly turning into my nemesis on this board; accusing me of failing to use my critical faculties while stealthily avoiding addressing any of my argument. I put it to you that, having sold you soul to satan and joined the public sector you have adopted its habits. Namely sneering at any criticism whilst failing to address it, shrugging your shoulders with apathy and bringing out the ‘that will open a whole can of worms’ excuse. This is a justification for doing nothing I commonly encountered during my days at Nottingham City Council.

This ‘can of worms’ interests me. Why is there a problem with ‘hypothecating taxes’ and using Air Passenger Duty for environmental measures?. If there is a problem, then what the hell is the point of the tax?. Another good question is why we were told when this tax first came out that it would go towards ‘public transport and environmental measures’. The truth, Mr Greedy, it that the money is going into the public purse and will partly go towards paying your over inflated salary.

Therefore you have a moral duty to come visit me in London and pay me the extra £40 quid I’m going to have to unjustly shell out on my long haul flight this summer.


[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[romantic]

Quoting The Bitter Historian from 23:27, 9th Feb 2007
You know, the train system in Britain isn't that bad. No, really. I use it a lot, ad it depends on what route you're taking. GNER are bloody awful, but the service is decent; Virgin trains run better with worse service. Such is life, I suppose. After experimenting with a cheap bus from London to Edinburgh, the experience was so dreadful that the train seems a bit of a luxury now. The expense is my real issue about the whole thing. Two years ago, it was possible to book in advance and get a cheap train if you were a bit flexible. That seems impossible now.

However: I am a rather sad case and believe in crazy things like doing my bit to help out the environment. One of these is a conscious choice not to fly internally and to avoid it when flying externally is possible. (If I ever went to Australia, I probably wouldn't get a boat...) I can't remember the exact figures, but I do feel uneasy about the growth in airline travel, and I'm quietly in agreement with higher taxes for airline travel if it could be proved to be an effective way to stop people flying when there's other equally legitimate ways of doing things. Before you all jump on me, I hasten to point out, I also think that simulteneously increasing air tax and airport runways is possibly one of the most synical and devious things I have seen this government do in a long line of letting down the environment.

[hr]

http://bitterhistorian.blogspot.com

Life. St Andrews. Budgeting. Some history. Mostly bitterness.

I had to book a trip on a GNER train to and from London with about 7 days notice at the end of January. Booking through thetrainline.com, it was cheaper to buy 1st class tickets. How stupid is that?

[Tweedle-Dum]

I'm surprised no-one's brought up the fact that this tax was not passed by a vote in either house, making it a constitutional anomoly, and completely free of any scrutiny. It also unfairly affects people who bought tickets before the tax came in, and makes no allowances for more efficient aircrafts in order to encourage them to lower emissions.

[hr]

Tetragrammaton is a four letter word.

[Wowbagger the Infinitely]

Vaguely related, but quite interesting: the biggest increasing cost to airlines in the USA is not increasing fuel costs or anything like that, but the expanding waistlines of the American passenger. Heavier people obviously necessitates more fuel, so costs increase - which are generally passed on to the customer.

[MrGreedy]

Quoting Humphrey from 09:26, 10th Feb 2007
I put it to you that, having sold you soul to satan and joined the public sector you have adopted its habits.

[etc.]

Therefore you have a moral duty to come visit me in London and pay me the extra £40 quid I’m going to have to unjustly shell out on my long haul flight this summer.

Mr Clarke, I put it to you that at the time of writing this post you should have been working to please your Zionist overlords instead of rising to my bait...

WRT hypothecation, the following link has a few points I'd take issue with but provides a pretty decent overview of the problems:
http://voting.taktix.org/2007/01/04/hypothecation-not-a-hypothesis-on-vacation-but-about-as-much-use/

As for the public purse and my overinflated salary, well I guess I'm bang to rights on that one (although naturally I'd argue that I'm very good value for it). Maybe we can discuss it while sampling my ever-growing whisky collection whenever you get the chance to come up and visit?

P.S.
The football was cancelled so my offer still stands for whenever it gets rearranged.

[Jono]

Quoting MrGreedy from 17:22, 10th Feb 2007

Quoting Humphrey from 09:26, 10th Feb 2007
I put it to you that, having sold you soul to satan and joined the public sector you have adopted its habits.

[etc.]

Therefore you have a moral duty to come visit me in London and pay me the extra £40 quid I’m going to have to unjustly shell out on my long haul flight this summer.

Mr Clarke, I put it to you that at the time of writing this post you should have been working to please your Zionist overlords instead of rising to my bait...

WRT hypothecation, the following link has a few points I'd take issue with but provides a pretty decent overview of the problems:
http://voting.taktix.org/2007/01/04/hypothecation-not-a-hypothesis-on-vacation-but-about-as-much-use/

As for the public purse and my overinflated salary, well I guess I'm bang to rights on that one (although naturally I'd argue that I'm very good value for it). Maybe we can discuss it while sampling my ever-growing whisky collection whenever you get the chance to come up and visit?

P.S.
The football was cancelled so my offer still stands for whenever it gets rearranged.

Why is this crap being dragged out on a university message board?

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[Bizarre Atheist]

Insensitive un-PC post warning:

I weigh 10 and a half stone.

If luggage allowance is measured by weight and therefore fuel consumption, why can't I fly cheaper than my fat friends?

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