should scottish uni's be just for the scottish ?

[Prophet Tenebrae]

There aren't many England vs. Scotland threads - mostly US vs. UK.

[firey]

On another note, if there's one thing I hate the scottish for, its the various public information adverts that they have. Why do you need a 'Scottish Learn Direct' to help with you career choices, when Wales, and Northern Ireland are happy using the UK's one. Every other advert is telling us to be healthier, less racist etc. Are these just issues that affect the Scottish? Why waste money creating these adverts just for the Scottish? Surely these are national problems. But no, these stupid fuckers can't understand it unless they've got a scottish voiceover.

At a time when the world is becoming more globalized, you still can't get a decent kebab in Scotland. Why is that?

Because the Scots are a bunch of insecure, miserable, Scottish, racist, unintelligible buggers.

And what's this shite about Gaelic, 59,000 speakers of the language and we still get Gaelic programs about absolute bollocks at primetime on the BBC. What is the point in teaching kids a dead language? Why not teach them to speak English with a good English accent?

That should fire things up here.

[Little she-bear]

[s]firey wrote on 17:36, 19th Feb 2003:
Why do you need a 'Scottish Learn Direct' to help with you career choices, when Wales, and Northern Ireland are happy using the UK's one.

Because Scotland has a different education system from the rest of the UK.

[Biitchboy]

[s]firey wrote on 17:36, 19th Feb 2003:
That should fire things up here.



Only if people are dumb enough to rise to your bait, but given how stupid the Scottish people are (according to you) then some should.

Although most of what you said was bullshit, I agree with you entirely about fucking gaelic. Just die already! Speak english!

[hr]
If I gave a shit, you'd be the first person I'd give it to.

[Cola Cube]

i]
And what's this shite about Gaelic, 59,000 speakers of the language and we still get Gaelic programs about absolute bollocks at primetime on the BBC. What is the point in teaching kids a dead language? Why not teach them to speak English with a good English accent?

[/i]

Well obviously it's not a dead language if 59,000 people speak it. And actually, most can speak English with a Scottish accent anyway.

[Al]

Although most of what you said was bullshit, I agree with you entirely about fucking gaelic. Just die already! Speak english!

Yeah and the Welsh should speak English! And the Irish! And the French! And the Germans! And everyone everywhere! How unreasonable are these people? Wanting to speak their own language! The twats!

[hr]"Oh sing sing sing
For the dying of the day
Sing for the flames that will rip through here
And the smoke that will carry us away"

[firey]

Cola Cube lacks the brains to understand a bit of implied humour but for the rest of you, seriously, what is the point of teaching children Gaelic? As Cola Cube so insightfully pointed out, 'most' Gaelic speakers also speak English. I'm feeling confident here, so I'm going to adjust that to 'all gaelic speakers speak English' although I have no basis for this assumption (as I'm sure you will all jump to point out.)

[Cola Cube]

iT's due to tradition and history and the fact that the communities who speak it are fairly proud of their history and their right to speak Gaelic. Suggesting they stop, to them would be very insulting.

Eejit.

[Pussycat]

Yeah it's fairly simple to understand. Maybe you're just thick but never mind. Do you really have nothing better to complain about that you have to insult a minority of people that have the right to choose what language(s) they speak.

Grow up.

[Little she-bear]

[s]firey wrote on 17:50, 19th Feb 2003:
Cola Cube lacks the brains to understand a bit of implied humour but for the rest of you, seriously, what is the point of teaching children Gaelic?

1) Usually, when a language dies, the culture goes with it; songs, stories etc. If you want us all to be just a homogenous mass with no cultural distinguishing marks then fine, kill the language.

2)Languages are interesing and I, and many others happen to believe that knowledge is intrinsically valuable so I see nothing wrong with the language being preserved for it's own sake, much as we do with Latin and ancient Greek.

3)A historical reason is that it is recompense for the years and years of oppression that was levelled at people who chose to speak Gaelic and Welsh over English. For instance, in Wales, there was a period where if a child was caught speaking Welsh in school he/she was forced to wear "the Welsh Knot" which marked them out and the other kids were encouraged to ridicule them for it. I think about 30-40 years ago, things went too far the other way. If you spoke Welsh you were lauded in school and the non-Welsh speakers were just expected to pick it up. These days it's much more balanced, it's taught like a foreign language which for many people (especially in the South of Wales) it is. Incidentally, Gaelic is not a compulsory subject in Scottish schools and it isn't very widely taught so stop whinging about it.

If the languages hadn't been oppressed so strongly by the English, they probably would have died out naturally on their own but the opression just made people more stubborn and determined to preserve them.

So there you have it. Who can we blame for the proliferation of Gaelic/Welsh programmes on TV? The English.

[firey]

'Last year, a Gaelic Development Agency was set up and the Scottish Parliament is currently spending more than £13m a year promoting the language. '
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2757225.stm

There are the facts, OK, so these communities you claim speak Gaelic, fair enough tradition and all. So why waste this money on 'promotion' surely if they are speaking the language then the kids are going to pick it up anyway, regardless. Gaelic is a sorry waste of time for most of the kids it is forced on, they would spend better time learning a useful language such as French, Urdu, Chinese etc. perhaps there wouldn't be such a problem with racism in Scotland then.

[Pussycat]

Because Urdu is so useful.

Gaelic is part of Scotland's heritage, is unique to the country, provides us with an insight into our history, and thus is preserved for future generations to learn about it.

So what if there's a couple of hours of gaelic programmes on a week.

Are you really this petty? If so you should definitely get out more.

[Biitchboy]

Firey makes a good point. I'm not opposed to gaelic as such, but the fact that it is inflicted upon the rest of us. If TV advertising can make use of "microregions" then why can't regular programmes. Thus meaning we could watch some decent TV on channel 2 instead of having hours of gaelic shit. Yes, the gaelic people MIGHT like it (even if it was in english it would still be shit) so restrict it to the areas where gaelic speaking is commonplace. ie not the entirity of Scotland.

[Pussycat]

That would be something to take up with the BBC instead of insulting those that speak Gaelic though.

[Moyersy]

[s]Pussycat wrote on 18:10, 19th Feb 2003:
Because Urdu is so useful.


Urdu in its spoken form is nearly identical to Hindi. The combined population of India and Pakistan is 1.2 billion. So why would i suggest urdu? Because Urdu is so useful.

This highlights other problems in Scotland, you are not even aware of what languages are spoken in the rest of Britain, let alone the world. Urdu (and its relatives) is the most popular second language in the UK.

So if you want to carry on learning Gaelic and tossing off over your dead language then go ahead, but don't force it on the rest of us, or use our taxes to fund it.

[TheGamesMaster]

[s]Pussycat wrote on 18:10, 19th Feb 2003:
Gaelic ... is unique to the country [Scotland]

Erm Gaelic is spoken in Ireland/NI BTW.

[LeopardSkinQueen]

The form of gaelic there is not identical, and it is mostly in the very far southern regions.

Interestingly, a higher percentage of Welsh are native speakers of their regional accent than Irish. Not that that is off topic at all, of course

[hr]NUTT: You'd be surprised how many women find my size intriguingly alluring.

MULDER: And you'd be surprised how many men do as well.

X-Files, "Humbug"

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Everyone should speak Esperanto - then we'd all be equally unhappy and everything would be fine.

[Al]

"Gaelic is a sorry waste of time for most of the kids it is forced on, they would spend better time learning a useful language such as French, Urdu, Chinese etc.."

No language is intrinsically more useful than another. A language is only useful if you are going to use it. There are very few people of "ethnic" backgrounds in Scotland. Most of these are English speaking. How would it be useful for Scottish children to learn Urdu or Chinese etc.?

"...perhaps there wouldn't be such a problem with racism in Scotland then."

But racism against the Gaels is permitted and welcome in your worldview?

"Thus meaning we could watch some decent TV on channel 2 instead of having hours of gaelic shit. Yes, the gaelic people MIGHT like it (even if it was in english it would still be shit) so restrict it to the areas where gaelic speaking is commonplace. ie not the entirity of Scotland."

Nobody is forcing you to watch Gaelic programmes, are they? Lots of people might object to the hours of sport on TV, or soaps, or whatever. The answer, rather than complaining about them, is simply not to watch them.

"So if you want to carry on learning Gaelic and tossing off over your dead language"

Actually, the census only reflects the numbers of speakers of Gaelic. If you take into account the boom in Gaelic education, it is far from a dead language.

"...but don't force it on the rest of us...."

How is it being forced on you? Does someone force you to watch Gaelic TV at gunpoint?

"...or use our taxes to fund it"

Your taxes?

[hr]"Oh sing sing sing
For the dying of the day
Sing for the flames that will rip through here
And the smoke that will carry us away"

[Moyersy]

[s]Al wrote on 18:48, 19th Feb 2003:
There are very few people of "ethnic" backgrounds in Scotland. Most of these are English speaking. How would it be useful for Scottish children to learn Urdu or Chinese etc.?

Perhaps they might travel to a foreign country, or meet one of these 'ethnics' in a 'city'. I have no doubt that employers value these languages above Gaelic.

But racism against the Gaels is permitted and welcome in your worldview?

I have no issue with Gaels, but I do have an issue with the attitude of certain members of that group who are living in a distant past.

Actually, the census only reflects the numbers of speakers of Gaelic. If you take into account the boom in Gaelic education, it is far from a dead language.

Yes, but the point is that this so-called boom is a waste of resources. I have no doubt the next census Gaelic speakers will be down by another 10%.

How is it being forced on you? Does someone force you to watch Gaelic TV at gunpoint?

No they don't, but who forces you to do anything? Is anyone here being forced to take part in a war on Iraq? Of course not, but they are entitled to grumble about it.

The majority of the population here would rather have television that is a)worthwhile and b)understandable.

It seems to me Al, that for someone who has graduated and moved on, you still spend a lot of time hanging around in the past. It's no wonder you are an advocate of Gaelic.