AMH Hall Subs

[Oceania]

The hall subscriptions have become a bugbear for a number of people this year due to the continued hostility of demands for money that is in their eyes neither used responsibly, efficiently nor in the best interests of AMH residents.

Residents who have been talking to the committee for more than two years are unhappy at the continued decrepitude of the pool table, table tennis table and other amenities for which hall subs are intended.

The real crux of the issue is this; the repeated notices about non-payment make mention of debt collectors, inability to graduate and a legal obligation to pay. While a little heavy handed they are none the less accurate.

Up to a point.

Upon inspection of the residence contract (available upon request from the Student Accommodation Services office on North Street, Tel. 2510 or Email. studacc@st-and.ac.uk) the phrase “additional amenities” will be seen.

Additional [s]adjective[/s] added, extra, or supplementary to what is already present or available

Amenity [s]noun (pl. –ies) (usu. Amenities)[/s] a desirable or useful feature or facility of a building or a place


This phrase is situated in the line in which a resident agrees to pay the Hall Sub (HS) to the committee (though neither is referred to as such) for additional amenities. This clearly defines the role of HSs as being solely for additional amenities.

In the next line the contract states that all damages will be paid for, however it does not state by whom.

As the agreement is between the individual resident and the University it can only be one of these (or a guarantor of one of these) who is legally obliged to pay for damages. It would follow that an individual pays for their damage and where no clear responsibility can be taken (i.e. general wear and tear) then the University is obliged to pay for it.

In the case of malicious or accidental damage a claim against the residents collectively is of obvious dubious validity due to the certainty that not everybody could have committed the self same act. It would be very difficult to prove otherwise under the very Judiciary system that residents are threateningly told they are subject to when ordered to pay.

To recap then:

1. Hall Subs are for additional amenities
2. This is their sole purpose
3. For them to extract money from residents in the knowledge they will be used for other purposes is a breach of contract and a misappropriation of funds
4. For the University to extract money from Hall Subs (with or without consent) is a breach of contract and is significantly more serious

Putting the legal issues aside for the moment and looking at the published budget we see that damages have actually been budgeted for. Hall Subs are not a returnable deposit but a payment – if no damages occur then the money allocated to this is not returned.

This surely would ease the conscience of anyone who would otherwise have come forward, gives a perceived validity to wanton acts of vandalism and even encourages those who would have thought better of it, now secure in the knowledge that they have already paid for it so they are not going to be landed with a hefty fine.

This, understandably, can do nothing for the atmosphere within Halls, is irresponsible and detrimental to general levels of responsibility.

There are a number of issues that remain (such as Hall Balls and events not being amenities) but these are of little consequence compared to the constructive way in which your money has been misused and misappropriated. After all, why should you pay for someone else’s damage?

[Prophet Tenebrae]

So we should have some sort of extraordinary hall sub, which will be spent on beating the carp out of the AMH committee?

[TheGamesMaster]

If only the NH subs were run as well as yours. NH Committee don't have accounts this year yet (and don't know what happened to last years accounts either) and don't appear to have a budget.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

NH finances were a joke, which is one of the reasons I resigned. Things are a far cry from the well regimented system that Dan Clark had setup in my 1st year.

[McK]

[s]Prophet Tenebrae wrote on 23:49, 25th Feb 2003:
NH finances were a joke, which is one of the reasons I resigned. Things are a far cry from the well regimented system that Dan Clark had setup in my 1st year.


Dan had to create that system because of the poor job his predecessor did. (He also had a very bad committee that year, and ended up doing it all himself).

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Yeah but it seems stupid that the system Dan established should so rapidly fall by the way.

[McK]

Definitely. I just don't think that the NH committee or its Senior Student this year (whom I know) are particularly dedicated. Or, at least, don't have as much time on their hands as Dan did! (Nobody does.)

[Prophet Tenebrae]

I don't think that Dan had a lot of time on his hamds, he was simply so devoted that he made time - at least that was the impression that I got.

In any case, he was certainly the best Senior student New Hall has had in recent history.

[McK]

In any case, he was certainly the best Senior student New Hall has had in recent history.
[/i]

Best of a bad bunch. Indeed.

[stan]

[s]Prophet Tenebrae wrote on 01:01, 26th Feb 2003:

In any case, he was certainly the best Senior student New Hall has had in recent history.


once again i laugh out loud!!! would you care to inform me what he did for new hall? except spend tooooo much money on plastic oscar figureines?

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Kept the trains running on time etc.

[stan]

ahhh. must have missed that one.

[Rrrr]

Dan was gone for the oscars ball. that was the influence of social convener maria and yarrow allowed it.

[stan]

those names ring a bell. i think i know who to blame now...

[medea]

I agree with Oceania. When I was there last year, the AMH committee were extraordinarily bad. Not to labour the point, but we were requesting for 2 years that the pool table, tennis table etc. got fixed and as far as I'm aware it hasn't been yet (although its ages since I've been in Melville to check) despite promises that it was the next thing on the agenda. Hmmm.

I've always thought that £50+ quid was scandalous cos I think the money gets wasted on things that only affect a few people in hall. Like damages. How bloody ridiculous is paying for other people's damages?

I'm glad Oceania pointed out the ACTUAL points of the contract cos I'm sure that most people (like myself) were under the impression that its a 'pay it or die' situation.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Medea, I think that while Oceania may have a point on paying halls subs, one might be hard pressed to pursue it in anything other than a technical manner.

[medea]

True - but its a shame.

55 quid is a lot of money to some people (like me) & I really begrudge paying for damage done by someone little boys arsing about. I can't afford to be wasting money in this way. Whilst I was in hall I certainly didn't get my hall sub's worth of anything really. And as I said before, the committee didn't help matters. I'm not getting at them as individuals, but as a group they were crap. I'm not looking to argue with anyone about his either.

[medea]

or 'this either'. oops.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

I think that you're seeking to place blame on the committee but having spent time on the committee, I can tell you that really there isn't that much committees can actually do.

Of course, no new pool table etc. is a joke after 2 years.

[Mr Tickle]

I personaly think that there may be a need to reform how hall committes are selected, as at present it is voted for by a majoriyty of people that will not see that committe, seeing as they will be leaving hall at the end of the year. I would suggest that possibly more of a selection process than election may be better, but who would select. elections art the beging of teh year would not work as most of teh events are in freshers week. possibly restricting votes to only those who will be in the hall the following year might be better.

can you think of any hall senior students that have been thrown out of hall??

I also think the method of collection is wrong for the money, it should be taken by the university and only released when a budjet has been produced, and accounts for the last year given.