Motion of Censure.

[Jono]

James, our resident forum-frequenting hack passed this ( http://yourunion.net/files/Motion_to_th ... cation.pdf )motion back at the end of November (Ironically, there doesn't seem to be a direct link to it), in a somewhat naive attempt to jigger the SRC officers out of the sixties dreamworld they all seem to occupy, and force them to report on what they've been doing since elected. It's now February, and we've all had time to progress through puberty; grow beards and discover girls. But in spite of all this precious time, said officers don't seem to be bothered with little things like adhering to Association policy.

Because elections are just around the corner, and because hangovers bring out the worst in me, I think threatening to bring comfortably long service to a halt might be appropriate. Therefore, I propose a motion of censure against those members failing to do their jobs. Specific targets being the members of the education committee, the Environment and Ethics committee, and any other group that can't be bothered.

What y'all think? And how would I go about making this official?

[hr]
BY FIRE; BE PURGED!

[Bizarre Atheist]

Sounds like hilarious fun.

I imagine it'd be an Exec matter, assuming you want the Association to condemn naughty lethargic SRC types, rather than just the SSC or SRC?

[hr]

[exnihilo]

If it works the way it used to, it's simply a question of writing a motion of censure and presenting it to the SRC/SSC where it will be voted on. it has about as much weight and as much impact as you might expect. The only real way to censure people is by motion of recall - and you will never get a quorum for it.

[Frank]

Aha, now this reminds me!

What the hells the dealio with the reciprocal agreements with other Unions, like Manchester, for instance? I note also that there's seemingly no reciprocals with any Irish unis?

A few friends of friends were up the other day (Dublin Trinity, Edinburgh) and there was no end of hilarity arising from the shocking news. I though this solving-the-reciprocals-problem bandwagon succeeded sometime last year?

Who's responsible for this? How can we harrangue other universities into acting and officiating this sort of thing? Is there anything to actually be done?

[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."
Also, some years later:
"here we are arguing about a few uppity troublemakers with a bee in their bonnet and a conspiracy theory."

[James Shield]

Oh dear, what is this monster I have created? (I object to both the words 'hack' and 'naive', but I guess that's subjective!)

It's all something of a work-in-progress, though I did look at the motion last week to see how many of the points I could tick off and we've actually made it through a surprising number of them. Some of them are not quite as stated (e.g. the SRC site is not at yourunion.net/src but at yourunion.net/advice), but equivalent measures have been taken. If you can tell me the specific things you think we're lacking in then I might be able to point you in the right direction.

As for motions of censure, I don't know much about these things but would suggest in the first instance that you contact the people in question and ask why they haven't done the things you'd like them to do.

[James Shield]

Quoting Frank from 15:47, 10th Feb 2008
What the hells the dealio with the reciprocal agreements with other Unions, like Manchester, for instance? I note also that there's seemingly no reciprocals with any Irish unis?

Who's responsible for this? How can we harrangue other universities into acting and officiating this sort of thing? Is there anything to actually be done?

This is Rich Robinson's territory, as far as I know. You can contact him on 'doserv'.

[James Shield]

Quoting Jono from 14:42, 10th Feb 2008
( http://yourunion.net/files/Motion_to_th ... cation.pdf )motion back at the end of November (Ironically, there doesn't seem to be a direct link to it)

You're correct, there isn't, though that's really a matter for the Chair and not me. There is, however, the Downloads & Docs area that I recently updated to include a section for uploading all motions that are passed from now on, accompanied by their respective voting records (another measure introduced by the motion you quoted):

http://www.yourunion.net/content/index.php?page=17484

[sqril]

How is the E&E committee not doing its job? I know nothing about the other sub committees so cant comment, but i sit on the E&E committee and it certainly seems to me that it gets a lot done! How well publicised its activities are may be another matter entirly.
I would suggest that emailing the committees with specific issues would get better results than moaning on here. The ethics and environment committee is open to anyone and usually meets at 3pm Wednesdays in the committee room on the 1st floor of the union, so if you want contribute ideas for things we could be doing or think there's something we're missing, then come and say so.

[Jono]

I didn't say it wasn't doing your job. I single it out, because, as pointed out in the elections topic, E&E haven't bothered to put up their minutes on the website for a year! It's all well and good "getting things done"; but how do the rest of us know that you're not just sitting around with your thumbs up your arses?

The fact is that, as elected representatives; you have to be able to account for all the decisions you make. The fairtrade policy for example; how was it reached? Who proposed it? When was it passed? According to the above motion, this information should be available online. Uploading a .PDF onto a website is hardly a matter requiring weeks of ethical debate! A more pertinent topic might be why elected members don't feel the need to report back to their constituencies as a matter of course!

I guess I'll email the heads of the committees about this then.

Quoting sqril from 17:45, 10th Feb 2008
How is the E&E committee not doing its job? I know nothing about the other sub committees so cant comment, but i sit on the E&E committee and it certainly seems to me that it gets a lot done! How well publicised its activities are may be another matter entirly.
I would suggest that emailing the committees with specific issues would get better results than moaning on here. The ethics and environment committee is open to anyone and usually meets at 3pm Wednesdays in the committee room on the 1st floor of the union, so if you want contribute ideas for things we could be doing or think there's something we're missing, then come and say so.

[hr]

BY FIRE; BE PURGED!

[sqril]

Sorry, it seems i misunderstood - i thiught you meant that member and committees were 'not doing their jobs' in general terms not the reporting back/ making minutes availible etc. I do agree with you on that, the muinutes should be made avalible for anyone who wants to read them - at least there is a fair bit of info on what the committee is doing/planning to do and has done on the union site which i think does go someway to proving that we are not, as you so elegantly put it "sitting around with your thumbs up your arses" even if all the discussion and decision making that would be in the minutes is not there.

[schmod]

Quoting Jono from 19:30, 10th Feb 2008
I didn't say it wasn't doing your job. I single it out, because, as pointed out in the elections topic, E&E haven't bothered to put up their minutes on the website for a year! It's all well and good "getting things done"; but how do the rest of us know that you're not just sitting around with your thumbs up your arses?

The minutes *do* exist, and I'm sure they'll be made available if you nudge the right people. It's not exactly as if E&E's activities are particularly secret or exciting. (I should also point out that most of the members of the committee contribute at least 10-20 hours per week, so you can hardly fault them for 'not doing their job'!)

The fact that we're still hosting events also seems to be a positive indicator that we're not sitting on our arses.

What the hells the dealio with the reciprocal agreements with other Unions, like Manchester, for instance? I note also that there's seemingly no reciprocals with any Irish unis?

We have a reciprocal agreement with NUI Galway. I imagine that the lack of others is very likely a matter of geographical distance, and a general lack of interest. Once again, if you contact that right people, you might be able to get something done about it.

The Manchester issue is a tricky one, and I believe that several attempts have been made to establish an agreement. I have no clue on what the current status of the situation is apart from the fact that an agreement was made for Medics only.

We've also got a few exceedingly weird items on the list of reciprocal agreements. The Open University and Aberdeen both stand out, as neither has a proper "union". Likewise, has anybody ever heard of the St Andrews College Union? According to Google, it only exists as part of our list of Reciprocals....

[Bizarre Atheist]

[hr]

[BenEsq]

Censure is a slap on the wrist. A no confidence is a different matter.

[hr]

Lions and tigers and bears...Oh my!

[Lid]

I think he was proposing that the SRC be reprimanded - so it would presumably the SRC that the no-confidence vote against the SRC would be brought.

There would be far too much self interest to even bother to get your cock out to piss into the wind, you might as well just wet yourself.

[hr]

Mathematical Anti Telharsic Harfatum Septomin

[Bonnie]

St Andrews tends to allow any and every reciprocal agreement it can get its hands on. There is extremely little cost involved and many more benefits.
Manchester (or rather some rabid NUS types down there) are just twats about it creating an agreement... and they are the ONLY ones to have a problem with forming an agreement.

I imagine the Irish Unis are not on the list because no one has ever gone through the trouble to getting the agreement and sending the necessary papers to the St Andrews licensing/ sheriff/ whatever.

Hell St Andrews even has an agreement with a local college!

Aberdeen and Open have agreements because why not? And Aberdeen Music College Union (err... I should remember what it was officially called, but I forget now) were part of Northern Services.

Edinburgh has an agreement... but why didn't you just sign in your friend? And if you say that you went to late, why didn't you check the list BEFORE your friend came up? The list is on the wall right at the front door... and the General Office is a free call from University lines.

[Fawksie]

Quoting Bonnie from 04:04, 11th Feb 2008
Manchester (or rather some rabid NUS types down there) are just twats about it creating an agreement... and they are the ONLY ones to have a problem with forming an agreement.

I thought it was done and dusted, according to Lee's report here:

http://www.thesinner.net/messageboard-viewthread.php?thread=28278

however it still doesn't appear on the copy of the list that's on the website, which, like everything else on there, probably can't be relied upon.

[exnihilo]

St Andrews College was once a teacher training college in Glasgow, it merged with Glasgow's Faculty of Education about 10 years ago. So, I'm guessing the deal has lapsed somewhat, unless people are carrying around decade old life membership cards.

[Students Association]

While it's true that you can't believe EVERYTHING that you read on the internet, the content of the Union's site is actually pretty accurate.

Ok, so there may be a few discrepancies here and there, but we're working through it to make sure that everything is accurate and up to date. With over 450 pages, it's no simple task.

Incidentally, if you find any erroneous bits and bobs on the site, would you mind bringing them to our attention? Simply email union@st-and.ac.uk with the subject "Website error". Be sure to include the URL of the offending page, and a description of how the error could be fixed.

Thanks

Edit: The page has been to list University of Manchester among the Universities with which we have a reciprocal agreement.
http://www.yourunion.net/content/index.php?page=9707

[Jono]

Looks like every Sub-committee's got their minutes up to date. Thanks very much.

[hr]

BY FIRE; BE PURGED!


http://www.myspace.com/tauntra

[Fawksie]

Fair enough, I apologise, it has improved since I last had a close look at it. However, the annoyance of large gaps in it remains.

The entire Events & Services > Bars and Catering section is empty. Could we get menus and opening hours for Beatons, the DRA Bistro and the Old Union Coffee Bar?

What about calling attention to the mere existence of BESS and its DRA branch somewhere under Events & Services? Maybe Blackwells as well?

Could we have hire prices for various equipment like the projectors and TVs?

Could you please link this page http://www.yourunion.net/news/index.php?page=article&news_id=3129 from People and Contacts, because other than by searching for precisely the right string, it can't be found.

Can you please link the Constitution from Downloads & Docs > Students Association Downloads > Constitution and Laws, and could you put Laws up at long last, David Bean pointed out in March last year that they were still missing.

Under Societies Downloads, can we have the Guidelines for Societies and Standing Orders, the Discretionary Grant form, the risk assessment paperwork and guidelines, and anything else you can get your hands on?

Can you make the Strategic Plan available and correct this: http://www.yourunion.net/news/index.php?page=article&news_id=2600

Could you perhaps link the Elections minisite from somewhere more obvious than the introduction to the SRC and the Minisites > General menu, and could the similar paragraph about the SSC found here http://yourunion.net/elections/content/index.php?page=19102 be copied to their page?

I can't find the Representation News page
linked from anywhere in the Advice and Campaigns section.
http://www.yourunion.net/news/index.php?page=article&news_id=8053

Can you add the Rector minisite to the Advice & Campaigns menu?

Could you perhaps temporarily link the Rag Week minisite http://www.yourunion.net/rag from the main menu for the next week, just to make it a bit more obvious and accessible. As it is, it can only be got to by clicking a Rag Week event on the front page, or via Minisites > Union Stuff. And for god's sake stop using such atrociously artifact-smeared JPEGs for everything on the Rag Week minisite!

Can you add The Book to Downloads & Docs?

On the subject of the Book, there's a lot of excellent information in it, but some of it is missing from the website and could do with being incorporated back in. 22.6MB is a bit much to download for some people just to find out one bit of information. The Design Team for example, could do with a bit more on the website than "hi lol we're the design team, we design stuff, here's our e-mail address".

Could you publicise the existence of the photographc darkroom and the Media Suite under Events & Services? I had heard rumours that the Union once had a darkroom, but I never knew where it was and assumed it had been removed, until I stumbled across it until one day with Photosoc's noticeboard outside proclaiming it had been restored to working order. Tell people about these facilities!

Can you link the Societies listing off the main menu somewhere, because currently it can only be got to from the front page.

Could you give the DoSDA her own subsection like Events & Services and Advice & Campaigns, under which the above Societies listing (and the Societies downloads) could be placed? Not to mention KnoS and the non-existent Life Skills site.

Here's a really big one, that may shake the Association to the core. The handwritten charts of room bookings are very quaint, but could we please have them uploaded to the website?! I would suggest adding the capability to book rooms online, but I think I'll start small. As I understand, the bookings are compiled electronically and then laboriously transcribed onto the charts, which is pitiful as much as it is amusing. Someone must be capable of implementing a bookings calendar, surely.