University taking cash from whaling criticised

[queen of scots]

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/ ... 28,00.html

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[munchingfoo]

The work did not involve data from animals killed by Japanese vessels, the university has no current involvement with ICR and the project was commissioned by the International Whaling Commission, which regulates hunting.

I don't see the issue with this, is it purely political bullshit?

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[s]Warning : The sinner is a plateau, with moral high ground manifesting itself as an optical illusion in the the bearers mind.[/s]

[Hennessy]

Bad as it may look I can't honestly see the University willfully decieving people and thinking they could get away with it, especially as they've recently started up their own "green initiatives"...mind you, what business is it of the Guardian's? I'd be quite pleased the University is forging links with another culture to such a degree they have been taking money off Japan's holy of holies, the whalers!

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"What happened to Spoon?"
"There is no Spoon"
Dog Soldiers

[Mr Comedy]

I think it is a great idea. Hopefully this is a sign that the University is going to reinstate the North Haugh hunt soon.

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"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

[munchingfoo]

Well, I don't know about thst...


but with global warming set to raisde sea levels perhaos they could start a north haugh whale hunt?

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[s]Warning : The sinner is a plateau, with moral high ground manifesting itself as an optical illusion in the the bearers mind.[/s]

[beeny]

I hate and fear whales. This is further proof to me that I picked the right university

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'But what do I know? I'm a bear; I suck the heads off fish.'

[Lord Alisk]

I don't even really see the problem with whaling, so long as the whale species targeted are not the endangered ones (which are the ones the Japanese are targeting I understand). Sustainable whaling is possible. One thing that vaguely irks me is that a large amount of commercial fishing (I'm thinking certain haddock, cod and tuna fisheries specifically, but there are many more) is wholly unsustainable, and you don't get 'Sea Shepherd' chasing after North Sea fishermen. And I'm sure that if the university was involved with, say, Mediterranean Tuna fishing, nobody would give a damn. I find it very silly that people care so much more about whales, when some species can be hunted perfectly sustainably - the Japanese eat all the whales they hunt, so I don't see how its worse than fishing anything else.

[Tigger]

Quoting Hennessy from 00:17, 4th Mar 2008
Bad as it may look I can't honestly see the University willfully decieving people and thinking they could get away with it, especially as they've recently started up their own "green initiatives"...mind you, what business is it of the Guardian's? I'd be quite pleased the University is forging links with another culture to such a degree they have been taking money off Japan's holy of holies, the whalers!

[hr]


Not decieveing people intentionally? This is St. Andrews University. The same place that took 1200 too many students from overseas when Prince William was here, and only got fined 150,000 pounds, yet made over £36 million off o them potentially. (9000 x 4 years x 1200 People)
And invested in Arms trade. And change their policies to fit criteria. The list is endless. Maybe the figures are a little out, but let's face it, this uni is a business. And as such, will make money however it can.

"What happened to Spoon?"
"There is no Spoon"
Dog Soldiers

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My Wings Are Like A Shield of Steel...
(Claire Raynor)

[Mr Comedy]

can we also kill bears?

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"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

[Manic23]

Why, are you getting tired of foxes?

[Hennessy]

Quoting Tigger from 11:01, 4th Mar 2008

Quoting Hennessy from 00:17, 4th Mar 2008
Bad as it may look I can't honestly see the University willfully decieving people and thinking they could get away with it, especially as they've recently started up their own "green initiatives"...mind you, what business is it of the Guardian's? I'd be quite pleased the University is forging links with another culture to such a degree they have been taking money off Japan's holy of holies, the whalers!

[hr]


Not decieveing people intentionally? This is St. Andrews University. The same place that took 1200 too many students from overseas when Prince William was here, and only got fined 150,000 pounds, yet made over £36 million off o them potentially. (9000 x 4 years x 1200 People)
And invested in Arms trade. And change their policies to fit criteria. The list is endless. Maybe the figures are a little out, but let's face it, this uni is a business. And as such, will make money however it can.

"What happened to Spoon?"
"There is no Spoon"
Dog Soldiers

[hr]

My Wings Are Like A Shield of Steel...
(Claire Raynor)

Nothing wrong with trying to make a little bit more money, considering the paltry size of the University's endowment. And the arms trade is a growth sector, its a great investment, if you ask me.

The story is more about the Guardian having a pop at percieved privilege on behalf of it's militant vegan animal rights crusaders, bless their bright little anti-globalisation hearts. For another story more rabid, especially in the tabloids, look at what they are doing to Conrad Black!

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"What happened to Spoon?"
"There is no Spoon"
Dog Soldiers

[Humphrey]

I must admit, on this issue I suffer from the moral carnivore's dilemma. It is worth considering that we as a species are not as unique as we would like to think. A distant cousin of mine, Hal Whitehead is one of the world's foremost authorities on Sperm Whale research so I take a sort of casual interest in his findings. There are a number of things I find interesting about them as creatures.

The most important thing is that Whales have 'culture' or to put it more dryly 'the complex and stable vocal and behavioural cultures of whales appear to have no parallel outside humans, and represent an independent evolution of cultural faculties'. Amongst observed behaviours are distinct languages with different dialects, the formation of complex social groups, babysitting, social learning and of course, song learning and sharing. Makes me think twice about serving them up with a plate of chips.

Somewhat ironically, Whales have always been very difficult to study and historically the only way to do it was to be in league with the whalers.

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[exnihilo]

Tigger,

1200 too many students from overseas? What unutterable wank. Even if it were true, however, any fees paid don't go in a burlap sack, they go towards running the university. And fining a university for being popular is perverse at best, all it does is take money away from it at a time when it has the most need of it.

As for "investing in the arms trade" the university, like many other businesses has a portfolio of investments managed on its behalf by fund managers. If they put some of that money into BAE or whatever, so what? It is not, as you would like to paint it Brian Lang stockpiling weapons to sell to anyone who feels like murdering a few Africans.

Come down from your "ethical" high horse and try engaging with reality for a minute, it'll be tough but you might like it.

[Haunted]

The big question with regard to whaling seems to be, where is the cutoff for killing intelligent animals?

Hunting primates is wrong (or is it?) and so is elephants these days. Why not cetaceans also? I may be open to cries of hyposcrisy since I eat pig and cow (rather intelligent creatures).

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Now with 100% more corn

[DrAlex]

St Andrews University was criticised last night for accepting funds for whale research from the Japanese agency which directs the country's annual whale hunt...

The university's [sic] Research Unit for Wildlife Population Assessment received £31,900 in 2002 and £5,000 in 2005...the university [sic] has no current involvement with ICR...

Will someone please tell me what the problem is here if there is no current involvement?

The only good thing about the Guardian is the crossword. And even that is only so-so.

[hr]

The Sinner: Where no one ever learned "if you haven't got any thing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[Rilla]

The problem was that the university taking money from the Japanese "for scientific purposes" legitamizes the Japanese whaling industry, who everyone knows was using the "scientific" label as an excuse for killing whales.

The other issue is, though, if the japanese are going to use the "scientific" excuse, surely it's better that a reputable university department is involved in the analyses, to make sure they're done properly, rather than some biased halfwit organisation?

And Humphrey, how interesting, I was at several conferences with Hal Whitehead in the U.S. Nice man.

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Be good to yourself because nobody else has the power to make you happy.

[Tigger]

Quoting exnihilo from 15:07, 4th Mar 2008
Tigger,

1200 too many students from overseas? What unutterable wank. Even if it were true, however, any fees paid don't go in a burlap sack, they go towards running the university. And fining a university for being popular is perverse at best, all it does is take money away from it at a time when it has the most need of it.

As for "investing in the arms trade" the university, like many other businesses has a portfolio of investments managed on its behalf by fund managers. If they put some of that money into BAE or whatever, so what? It is not, as you would like to paint it Brian Lang stockpiling weapons to sell to anyone who feels like murdering a few Africans.

Come down from your "ethical" high horse and try engaging with reality for a minute, it'll be tough but you might like it.

Over the 4 years the figure of exceeded intake was slightly less than 1200, i do aplogise. it was 1054. the university got fined the equivalent of the standard fees of £1100 pounds for the first year of students, at % over the allowance, which is 176 students. this was due to them giving conditional acceptances to overseas students as always, but not bargaining on the fact that most would accept. the upkeep of the university does not cost 10000 per student per year. hall fees are paid by the student or family thereof. and i wasnt on a moral high horse. i was pointing out that recieving money, as a business, was from all over, and as the university is run as such, sometimes the source of funding will upset people. so, unutterable wank. no. moral high ground. no. and i never said brian lang was stockpiling weapons. what i assumed is that people had the ability to choose their direction. direct investment into arms is as unethical as whaling to certain groups, and should be considered as a grey area that people will be passionate about. its not just here either. Caledonian uni also got fined, and also have so called unethical investments. teh reason it shocks so much here is due to the fact we are not all gun packing, environmentally destructive people. anyway. rock on.

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My Wings Are Like A Shield of Steel...
(Claire Raynor)

[Frank]

Speaking of questionable ethical choices in the uni, I'm quite positive there was at least one researcher looking into lasers for laser-guiding missiles.

One way or another...!

Just a shame it wasn't lasers for shark-heads.

[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."
Also, some years later:
"here we are arguing about a few uppity troublemakers with a bee in their bonnet and a conspiracy theory."

[ascii]

Quoting DrAlex from 15:33, 4th Mar 2008
The only good thing about the Guardian is the crossword. And even that is only so-so.

Nonsense. Many sinners may not like it because of its pinko lefty politics, but even if you don't like the news and comment, the sports coverage and g2 are great.

[WashingtonIrving]

Plus it has Charlie Brooker. He does hate tories though.

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"I said farewell honey, I'll see you Judgment Day"