I hate Margaret Hodge

[Hennessy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7276684.stm

Surely there are better things to do than go after the proms.

[hr]

"What happened to Spoon?"
"There is no Spoon"
Dog Soldiers

[flossy]

Here was me thinking it wasn't inclusive because it doesn't include the hearing impaired...

People may not feel comfortable attending but most of it is televised or on the radio and lots more people will catch parts of it in this way. What she's using as "common culture" is literally stuff you have to go out of your way to not see.

[hr]

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the substrate.

[exnihilo]

She's a vapid waste of skin. I detest her, and this has just confirmed for me how utterly, fundamentally pointless she is.

[Campbell]

surely she has a point though, i mean, i can't think of a single person i know of any age that would watch the proms...

[exnihilo]

Really? Nobody you know of any age is interested in classical music? Or are you speaking specifically about the last night?

[Hennessy]

I'm no huge fan of the Proms, but even I can see it has more cultural value than Coronation Street, which is complete drivel. Similiarly, much lauded as the Angel of the North is, it's just a statue. The Proms is an event, which brings together London, Cardiff, Belfast and Edinburgh (did I miss a city there) every year in a celebration of classical music, which most people enjoy at some point in their lives.

I hate it when politicians try to define working class sympathy by attacking something they percieve to belong to the "other", when in fact the Proms by and large crosses a lot of these so-called "class-boundaries" they insist on.

[hr]

"What happened to Spoon?"
"There is no Spoon"
Dog Soldiers

[sat]

Quoting campbell from 17:14, 4th Mar 2008
surely she has a point though, i mean, i can't think of a single person i know of any age that would watch the proms...

Quoting exnihilo from 17:19, 4th Mar 2008
Really? Nobody you know of any age is interested in classical music? Or are you speaking specifically about the last night?

Or is that ellipsis a the faintest flicker of sarcasm?

Funnily enough the Proms seem to pride themselves on being accessible: the "prommers" are able to get into the hall for some very cheap price (even if they do stand once inside), and it's not stuffy or formal inside (no dressing-up required). Whether some people feel isolated from that sort of thing is perhaps another matter.

It's not quite related, but I'd like to see more of them broadcast on TV. At least Radio 3 has them all covered though.

Personally, I'm not so much for the Last Night: I daresay the flag-waving etc. is fun if you're there but the other concerts are a completely different thing ("proper" concerts).

[David Bean]

And yet,

A Downing Street spokesman has said Mrs Hodge's comments were not intended as an attack and that she supported the Proms as a "wonderful, democratic and a quintessentially British institution".

Which, for the 120,000th time, proves what a bunch of mendacious liars and hypocrites we have mockingly claiming to run this country.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[theonlyone]

Utter nonsense. If we change the Proms to make them more user friendly, they won't be the Proms any more! They won't be "quintessentially British" and if that is what they are trying to promote, they should just leave things the way they are, if anything bring back tradition rather than tearing it to pieces to make it more "acceptable to the common Briton".

Reading that article irritates and frustrates me no ends.

And as for no one our age listening to classical music, well I can think of several of my friends who enjoy it, so I dont believe that for one moment.

[cuteasabutton]

I like coronation street.

[hr]

But do you REALLY think that the world is round?

[maenad]

Isn't it extremely difficult to get tickets for the Last Night? I heard that you had to have attended a certain number of concerts, which rules out the concert for pretty much the entire country. (Makes me sad, because I really would like to go)

[hr]

Tommy can you hear me?

[theonlyone]

Quoting maenad from 23:20, 4th Mar 2008
Isn't it extremely difficult to get tickets for the Last Night? I heard that you had to have attended a certain number of concerts, which rules out the concert for pretty much the entire country. (Makes me sad, because I really would like to go)

[hr]

Tommy can you hear me?

It is difficult but the Albert Hall is quite large, so there are many opportunities. The rule about going to a certain number of concerts before the last night is right, but its not many, only one or two (I think), and that is just to get a seat. There are lots of queues hours before hand to get a standing space, or even seats, I believe it would be worth waiting. Also if you buy a season ticket, I think you should automatically get a ticket, but I am unsure about that.

[Get it up yas]

I once read a column that described the proms as being like a special needs convention! It is just a load of middle England losers poncing about to anachronistic pomp and ceremony and looking like retards. If people feel proud of this and the union jack that's fine just take off those ridiculous plastic hats!

[exnihilo]

What I've always found interesting about the Last Night, and the attacks on it for being jingoistic (Gerald Kaufmann, I'm looking at you) is that sheer number of flags from other nations being waved at it. It's just nonsense.

[Campbell]

no, nobody i know of any age listens to classical music, apart from one guy who's into heavy metal and there's a sort of fad in that scene to listen to classical music too because it makes you seem marginally less like a 14 year old.

but no, genuinely, nobody i know listens to classical music. no sarcasm.

[exnihilo]

Fair enough. Novel, but fair enough.

[next]

Quoting campbell from 14:52, 5th Mar 2008
no, nobody i know of any age listens to classical music, apart from one guy who's into heavy metal and there's a sort of fad in that scene to listen to classical music too because it makes you seem marginally less like a 14 year old.

but no, genuinely, nobody i know listens to classical music. no sarcasm.

Given that you know “no one of any age” who listens to Classical music and one person who listens to Heavy Metal, are you not rather unqualified to comment. Perhaps you should consider why you use your rather limited selection of acquaintances to justify the idea that one of the worlds largest Classical music festivals is some how failing if you have no knowledge or interest anyway?

[sat]

Quoting Get it up yas from 15:14, 4th Mar 2008
I once read a column that described the proms as being like a special needs convention! It is just a load of middle England losers poncing about to anachronistic pomp and ceremony and looking like retards. If people feel proud of this and the union jack that's fine just take off those ridiculous plastic hats!

I assume that said column was referring to the Last Night. As I pointed out above, the other 70-odd(?) concerts in the season are just about the music: you go along and sit/stand for a couple of hours and listen. No flags. Or silly hats.

[Campbell]

Dear Next

No, i know lots of people who like metal but since it's such a ludicrous genre of music i don't really talk to them much about it.

and given that my comment - and, indeed, the discussion at large - was about the relevance of the proms/classical music, I struggle to accept that my comment is worthless, given that it refers directly to the topic at hand (unlike yours).

i would not say that i had a limited number of aquaintences, but rather that classical and metal music are largely unimportant to the majority of society. i mean, i know a few people who i'm sure would express an interest in both of them, but would never enthuse or go out of their way to buy/listen , because neither have anything to offer - metal because it never did anyway and classical because we rate lyrics and 'catchiness' too highly. not saying that that's right, it's just true.

[Hennessy]

Quoting campbell from 23:31, 5th Mar 2008
Dear Next

No, i know lots of people who like metal but since it's such a ludicrous genre of music i don't really talk to them much about it.

and given that my comment - and, indeed, the discussion at large - was about the relevance of the proms/classical music, I struggle to accept that my comment is worthless, given that it refers directly to the topic at hand (unlike yours).

i would not say that i had a limited number of aquaintences, but rather that classical and metal music are largely unimportant to the majority of society. i mean, i know a few people who i'm sure would express an interest in both of them, but would never enthuse or go out of their way to buy/listen , because neither have anything to offer - metal because it never did anyway and classical because we rate lyrics and 'catchiness' too highly. not saying that that's right, it's just true.

But we hear classical music all around us! Ever seen Apocalypse Now? The bit with Wagners Ride of the Valkyries? Ever seen a car advert? There must be hundreds with classical music, some have even taken car parts to make a classical orchestra! National anthems, all classical pieces, even the EU has Beethovens "Ode to Joy" as its anthem. Uefa have Zadok the Priest as their opening music to any game. You can't possibly be comparing the level of cultural saturation from classical pieces to the limited niche of metal music. Everyone has heard, and enjoyed classical pieces during their lifetime, most people even have a specific favourite, from dustbin men to the Prime Minister, the cultural significance of it all is huge.

I think you probably do have a favourite piece of music, maybe you don't know the name or the composer, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that a majority of the people you know also have favourites, even if they can't remember the name or composer.

[hr]

"What happened to Spoon?"
"There is no Spoon"
Dog Soldiers