Offensive Anti-British Song

[Craig]

Quoting from 11:39, 19th Mar 2008
The song itself contains no lyrics specifically encouraging violence. It tells British soldier's to "go on home" it does not advocate shooting, stabbing, bombing or in anyway directly causing them physical harm.

The lyrics do state that "we will fight you for eight hundred more" but this could be taken as simply meaning resistance and fitting into the song better. I will however concede that this can easy be taken to mean armed opposition to British troops.

Also the bop, as far as I'm aware, regularly plays music by artists who both advocate violence and drug use as well as racist and homophobic views and are themselves criminals convicted of such offences. Why no backlash against these songs?

Discuss.......

Lyrics include:

"If you stay British soldiers if you stay
you'll never ever beat the IRA
the fourteen men in Derry are the last that you will bury
so take a tip and leave us while you may."

Now, why do you think those 14 are the last that'll be buried? Is it because the IRA is going to steal the British army's spades? Or because the British are going to be killed?

As for the backlash against other songs, I'm fairly sure plenty of people get in a tizzy about it all the time. I seem to recall hearing complaints along those lines before.

[nighteyes]

Oh the joys. I used to work in a Celtic pub in Coatbridge in my first summer after uni. That was fun. A total diet of the wolfetones and pogues etc. That was so much fun esp as the locals knew I was a Rangers supporter. I got to know alot of these songs over the summer and I just cannot bring up any feeling of offence whatsoever.

[hr]

i didnt say i was consistant, just right!

[guestdiplomat]

Quoting Craig from 17:21, 19th Mar 2008
Lyrics include:

"If you stay British soldiers if you stay
you'll never ever beat the IRA
the fourteen men in Derry are the last that you will bury
so take a tip and leave us while you may."

Now, why do you think those 14 are the last that'll be buried? Is it because the IRA is going to steal the British army's spades? Or because the British are going to be killed?

As for the backlash against other songs, I'm fairly sure plenty of people get in a tizzy about it all the time. I seem to recall hearing complaints along those lines before.

Maybe they were just going to politely ask the British to not massacre unarmed civilians anymore?

[ct3012]

Quoting nighteyes from 20:43, 19th Mar 2008
Oh the joys. I used to work in a Celtic pub in Coatbridge in my first summer after uni. That was fun. A total diet of the wolfetones and pogues etc. That was so much fun esp as the locals knew I was a Rangers supporter. I got to know alot of these songs over the summer and I just cannot bring up any feeling of offence whatsoever.

By Jesus! How did you survive? I'd never work in a Rangers pub o.O they'd lynch me lol (or at least they would if there was such a thing at home ).

[nighteyes]

Actually they used to dance with me around the bar and I got lots of tips. You just need to have a thick skin and know how to banter. Besides who could hurt someone as cute and ickle as me ;-p

[hr]

i didnt say i was consistant, just right!

[Tizer]

The people on here who are looking at the lyrics and declaring that this song is not offensive are missing the point.

This song is associated with the IRA. Jono posted youtubes links to videos of the song which make this point very clear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Or8Sfy3JlM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8op4Orblrn4

Whatever you fell about the rights and wrongs of armed struggle, etc, it should be remembered that:

1. The IRA killed civilians.
2. This song is a sectarian song.

The song is offensive to many people of N Ireland and Scotland due its associations with the 'the troubles' and sectarianism, not simply due to its lyrics.

This song was hardly apt for a celebration. I can only hope that the people on this forum board implying that this is political correctness gone mad did not fully understand the social and historical context that this song is apart of.

I think the DJ's apology is enough in the circumstances as he did not act maliciously.

[ljrmorgan]

I think it's against union rules to sing sectarian songs in the bar - I wonder what would happen if a group of people started singing this. It's absolutely ridiculous that someone played this, and I'm amazed that people are defending it.

As for that comment about London putting brother against brother - what a load of shite. What planet do you people live on?

[the Empress]

OK, song aside, I LOVE the 'maybethey'llneverknow' thinking. There seems to be a definite anti-British theme this week, both on sinner threads, and the 'Scottish not British' graffiti scattered around town. Which, annoying as it is aside, is totally lame, because who uses CHALK for rebellious graffiti?
Also walking along town yesterday, over heard two teenies saying 'yeah, those English, we KILLED them.' *gulp*

Quoting scotlandposse2010 from 12:56, 18th Mar 2008
so I was running out of things to play, and hoped no one would notice (the music is so loud at the Bop anyway, it seems most people can hardly understand the lyrics anyway).

[munchingfoo]

People can do say or listen to or play whatever they want in my opinion. Unfortunately in this case we are talking about the union doing something (dj acting on behalf of the union). This is where the issue is. (not that I have an issue, but clearly some people do)


I once went to the union dressed as a nazi pope. This offended some people, but it was my choice to do it, and my right to do it. I would be behind those who found a Nazi Pope themed bop offensive though. The union doesn't have that right to do what it wants, since it has to be representing all cultures/faiths/non-faiths.

[hr]

“ When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading”

[Bullet_MaGnEt]

Just a couple of points before I head to bed.

Saving the song is offensive because its associated with the I.R.A. and they killed civilians is an amazingly terrible arguement. Every army in the world has killed civilians so does that make every national anthem, associated with each nations military, offensive?

No I don't think so. I wouldn't, for example, say playing god save the queen in general would be offensive.However playing it at a memorial service for german soldier's killed in either world wars would be offensive.

Therefore offensiveness is determined by context and useage as seen in that its not offensive for a black musician to use the word nigger or a jewish comedian to make anti-semitic jokes.

Had "go one home british soldiers" been played at say an orange walk, an old firm game, a uvf event or some similarly charged context I would say it was offensive.

But at the bop on pseudo St Paddy's day? Get a grip folks.

[actomelodramitico]

If I'd been present, a pint of beer would've ended up over the DJ.

Yes, it is offensive, and massively inappropriate.

[LonelyPilgrim]

Quoting Bullet_MaGnEt from 01:31, 22nd Mar 2008
Just a couple of points before I head to bed.

Saving the song is offensive because its associated with the I.R.A. and they killed civilians is an amazingly terrible arguement. Every army in the world has killed civilians so does that make every national anthem, associated with each nations military, offensive?

The point isn't that the IRA has killed civilians. The point, rather, is that the IRA has *deliberately* targeted and killed civilians for the purposes of political terror. They are not an army, in the legally or socially accepted sense. Despite their name, they are a terrorist organisation.

I would say that if they (the IRA) regard this song as some sort of institutional symbol, as a metaphor for their socio-political goals, then the song is at least as offensive as the IRA itself is, regardless of situational context. The only context that matters is the sensitivity and the bias of the listener. At a public place, with music being provided by a supposedly apolitical organisation, the song is clearly inappropriate because it will inevitably offend some listeners who have every right to expect not to be offended by lyrical political statements at such an event.

It's fundamentally the same as if someone played "Deutchland, Uber Deutchland" at a disco in Warsaw - although one can argue a difference in the scale of offensiveness. Still, the nature of the offense remains the same, even if the degree is not.

Playing the song may not have been maliciously intended, but that does not stop it from being a political statement - even if unintentional. It is equal to an uneducated white person who is not themselves racist, but grew up around racists, and not realising that 'nigger' is an offensive word. That person using 'nigger' is not as offensive as someone who uses it to be deliberately offensive, but it still offends and is still socially unacceptable. In the case of the song, an apology was issued, and that should be the end of the matter - it won't happen again.

[hr]

Self-control is the chief element of self-respect; self-respect is the chief element of courage. - Thucydides

[Fawksie]

Quoting LonelyPilgrim from 07:17, 22nd Mar 2008
It's fundamentally the same as if someone played "Deutchland, Uber Deutchland" at a disco in Warsaw

Do you mean Das Deutschlandlied?

[exnihilo]

Quoting ljrmorgan from 16:17, 21st Mar 2008
It's absolutely ridiculous that someone played this, and I'm amazed that people are defending it.

Nobody is defending it. However, the person who played it admitted the mistake and apologised.

Self-righteous indignation and public flagellation will do no good.

Everyone needs to let it go.