Wimbledon

[Arnaud]

Anyone watching? Care? What with Andy "Arrogant Wanker" Murray doing ok I thought Scots would be all over him.

[Haunted]

Accusations of sporting arrogance from England (I presume) ?
Say it ain't so...

[hr]

Now with 100% more corn

[beeny]

I watched the Gasquet game last night and was really quite quite disappointed that Murray won. And I am Scottish (well, with an English parent).

IMO, Murray is an utter disgrace to the game. He's an arrogant little baby when he wins (post-game interview footage : 'the better man won', I believe he said) and when he loses, it's like McEnroe but without the talent.

I think he should wait four or five years, do some soul-searching and only then return to the sport. His only being 21(?)shines through so obviously in his actions. The 'man' is no national treasure, he's a disappointment to his country. He might play tennis well, but he is no sportsman.

I was speaking to Americans in the bar I work in last night who said they were surprised I was not supporting Murray. They said they could understand my reasonings for it though because apparently mine is a very common view amongst most other countries, except Britain.

However, on a lighter note,my frustration was mainly due to my looking down on anything that prompts Scots to become more unfoundedly pompous about their compatriots' achievements :p

[hr]

'But what do I know? I'm a bear; I suck the heads off fish.'

[papercutheart]

So you're scolding a 21 year old for acting his age?

If he has any unfounded sense of self-ability can most probably be traced back to the fact that he is hyped up so much in the media, and because LTA are so inept at developing talent in this country all our hopes and expectations are pinned on him with nobody to take the spotlight away.

Would you not come across as arrogant but also petulant when you had a constant stream of people saying you were the best, you're going to the top - and then giving you abuse because when at the age of 19/20/21 you've not reached the second week of a grand slam?

Pull your head out of your arse - the guy has talent. It's debatable whether he'll ever be the best player in the world, but it goes without question that he'll be in the top 5...and maybe he'll show maturity when he's reached a mature age!

[beeny]

Quoting papercutheart from 18:33, 1st Jul 2008
So you're scolding a 21 year old for acting his age?

I'm scolding him for acting like a spoilt 10 year old actually.

And other young players manage not to pull the ridiculous array of smug (if it's going well) or gurning faces that he does.

Undeniably he has talent. Just wish he had sportsmanship. As I believe I said....

It's just not enjoyable to watch someone behave like that, world class player or not. If he wasn't Scottish and acted like that (maybe if he was English or American) I'm pretty sure most would agree. But naturally you champion your own.

[hr]

'But what do I know? I'm a bear; I suck the heads off fish.'

[d_24]

Quoting Haunted from 17:29, 1st Jul 2008
Accusations of sporting arrogance from England (I presume) ?
Say it ain't so...

To be fair English sporting arrogance prevails in football where it is unfortunately tolerated but the same behaviour at Wimbledon is out of order.

Quoting beeny from 17:45, 1st Jul 2008
He might play tennis well, but he is no sportsman.

True. In my view the most viscious sport is the most gentlemanly; rugby.

Quoting papercutheart from 18:33, 1st Jul 2008
So you're scolding a 21 year old for acting his age?
...

Pull your head out of your arse - the guy has talent...maybe he'll show maturity when he's reached a mature age!

Since when is kissing your biceps and showboating to the crowd at the age of 21 acceptable? I wouldn't act like that at the age of 16 never mind 21! Having talent doesn't give you license to act like a tit at any age.

[hr]

Before Bauer...There Was House

[groovy]

Why is that when an English Sportsman acts in a similar unsportsmanlike fashion (i.e. Ronnie O'Sullivan) there is not the same reaction as to when Andy Murray (a Scotsman) does it?

Also, since he was entirely respectful to his opponent in post-match interviews IMO, where did he go wrong? A sportsman in an interview can either give the 'correct' answer or the 'honest' answer. Whenever a sporting figure gives an honest opinion on something (that isn't seen as being humble or sportsmanlike) then they are chastised. What a horribly British thing to do. He's showing some fucking character, and good on him I say.
[hr]

Remember now, there's a big difference between kneeling down and BENDING OVER!

[Rrrr]

And other young players manage not to pull the ridiculous array of smug (if it's going well) or gurning faces that he does.

Is that not a bit harsh? I mean maybe that's just his face.
Plus, it's not unreasonable to assume that someone like Murray who has been training training training most of his life might be somewhat "retarded" personality-wise i.e. he doesn't yet know how he should act, or no one has ever told him that what he things is self-celebratory/pleased with himself comes off as "smug" as you say.

[hr]

Splat!

[TheUnixKid]

Murray played incredibly well, he came back from 2 sets down and won against a good opponent. The better man did win and he was right for saying so in interview afterwards. Aside from that he seemed much more humble than he usually is, thanking the crowd and accepting that he was outplayed in the first two sets which he was.

Yes flexing your muscles in front of centre court isn't the most sportsman of activities (especially considering how puny he is) but he's done well to get that far and should be pleased with himself, especially after such a difficult match. I'd much rather see someone arrogant like Murray doing something silly on centre court (a la Macinroe) than some boring, bland tennis monkey winning game after game with no reaction. Who cares if he's arrogant. If you don't like him turn the TV off.

On another note I think if anyone should be criticised here it should be the crowd for booing when Gasquet left for a toilet break. That's about as unsportsmanlike as you can get.

[Iain]

I think that the tennis fans (or dare I say the "people who are wanting some British sporting success") had kind of written Murray off as a failure. The crowds didn't seem to care about him until yesterday, when he finally showed considerable fight and made a real attempt to get the crowd on his side. They seemed to like it, so what's the complaining for?

Yes, he gets "gurny", but he seems to be someone who is just very hard on himself and gets in a tizz when things are not going well. Tell me you all religiously keep the toys in the pram when things go wrong! We're watching a man's career here. You'd go into a strop if you didn't get a promotion or got a bad exam result when you knew you could have done better.

He's only human. Why can't he be rough round the edges and a bit stroppy like a hard-working young fighter might be. Doesn't he need an arrogant streak to help him be a success? I'd rather that than Tim "stiff upper lip and starched collars" Henman any day!

[d_24]

Quoting TheUnixKid from 23:34, 1st Jul 2008
Murray played incredibly well, he came back from 2 sets down and won against a good opponent. The better man did win and he was right for saying so in interview afterwards. Aside from that he seemed much more humble than he usually is, thanking the crowd and accepting that he was outplayed in the first two sets which he was.

Yes Murray did well. VERY well from what I saw. But even considering the pressures and careers and emotions and all that I still don't find his behaviour or attitude appropriate. Which seems to have something to do with the typical stuffy British reserve towards expressing joy as well as the strict code of conduct surrounding traditional events like Wimbledon. Flexing muscles (regardless of how big they are ¬_¬) is as out of place as MacInroe was, which at the time was far from entertaining. If you want to see 'sportsmen' celebrate for the crowd, go watch NFL or Euro. Who cares if he's arrogant? People who want to watch Wimbledon without the fist-pumping frat-boy wooooop-wooooop childishness for one.

Quoting Iain from 23:35, 1st Jul 2008
He's only human. Why can't he be rough round the edges and a bit stroppy like a hard-working young fighter might be. Doesn't he need an arrogant streak to help him be a success? I'd rather that than Tim "stiff upper lip and starched collars" Henman any day!

There have been many, many very fine athletes that showed a lot more decorum in equally and more stressful situations. At the end of the day we're talking about a sport. It's not exactly a major issue. But I find Henman's restrained and dignified little fist clench a lot more endearing than Andy.

[hr]

Before Bauer...There Was House

[beeny]

Quoting d_24 from 01:14, 2nd Jul 2008
But I find Henman's restrained and dignified little fist clench a lot more endearing than Andy.

Hear hear! At least someone understands my point.

[hr]

'But what do I know? I'm a bear; I suck the heads off fish.'

[stevienicksfan]

Thats probably because you are a pompous prat. 21st century sport makes such high demands on the players that its all about self-confidence. You are probably the sort of folk who believe its better to lose sportingly than to win due to a raised level of self-confidence and, wo betide us, self-belief. Look at any sport and you will find that the ones who actually win are very, very self-confident. Federer's mantra after every match is "I played well, I was the better man". After every match! Despite this being true most of the time, Murray's self-confidence is a breath of fresh-air to us brits and I use the term sparingly, who really want to see a champion come from our midsts finally!

[Guest]

Quoting groovy from 22:10, 1st Jul 2008
Why is that when an English Sportsman acts in a similar unsportsmanlike fashion (i.e. Ronnie O'Sullivan) there is not the same reaction as to when Andy Murray (a Scotsman) does it?

Also, since he was entirely respectful to his opponent in post-match interviews IMO, where did he go wrong? A sportsman in an interview can either give the 'correct' answer or the 'honest' answer. Whenever a sporting figure gives an honest opinion on something (that isn't seen as being humble or sportsmanlike) then they are chastised. What a horribly British thing to do. He's showing some fucking character, and good on him I say.
[hr]

Remember now, there's a big difference between kneeling down and BENDING OVER!

please stay away from sport. you have'nt got a sodding clue

[groovy]

Quoting from 00:46, 2nd Jul 2008


please stay away from sport. you have'nt got a sodding clue

C'mon mods, how did this contribute?

[hr]

Remember now, there's a big difference between kneeling down and BENDING OVER!

[RandomMusings]

3 things....

1) Does anyone actually think Murray can beat Nadal today - someone the same age (or younger than Murray) and with considerably more achievements through his career?

2) Not to be pedantic (it is the sinner after all), but 'Macinroe' is actually spelt 'McEnroe'.

3) What is the obsession with 'towelling down' after every goddamn point in this year's Wimbledon? I know it's happened in the past, but it seems massively over the top this year. To a lesser extent, the female grunting is equally as irritating.

[hr]

I like paper.

[papercutheart]

Quoting stevienicksfan from 08:28, 2nd Jul 2008
who really want to see a champion come from our midsts finally!

To be fair, we already have a champion in Jamie Murray. Now I think we can all agree that he's a nice lad ain't he?

[beeny]

Quoting papercutheart from 13:00, 2nd Jul 2008
To be fair, we already have a champion in Jamie Murray. Now I think we can all agree that he's a nice lad ain't he?

I have no problem with Jamie Murray, only Andy... Not denying he's a good player though. He is an excellent player. Doubt he'll fare so well against Nadal though.

[hr]

'But what do I know? I'm a bear; I suck the heads off fish.'

[stevienicksfan]

I also want to state for the record that Tim Henman was an outrageous failure! With 15000 people behind him completely balling the other guy out on 4 separate occasions HE SILL COULDN'T DO IT! The guy was the biggest folder the game has ever seen when the pressure got too much for him.

Think of the opportunities he spurned time after time because all he could do well was serve and volley, which was fine until you realise he couldn't serve, hit groundstrokes, smile or generally be confident enough to win diddlysquat! Only at the end of his career did he learn how to use the crowd which was too late. Murray must not be chastised for doing the thing Henman was attempting but never could.

[stevienicksfan]

Agreed on Jamie Murray however. Now all we need is the Murray double! On the lads!