The CU and the Union

[Holly]

During a recent meet-up with my academic mum, the subject of the CU and its falling-out with the Union came up. Neither of us knew any of the details (though she thought it had something to do with LGBTSoc) and I'm really curious (and eager to avoid revision), so I figured if anyone could give me a reliable answer, it would be some anonymous stranger from the Sinner.

What I'd like to know is whether or not the Union actually did disown the CU (or if the CU chose to disaffiliate itself from the Union) and if so, the story behind that decision.

[macgamer]

The CU has never, to my knowledge, been affiliated with the Students' Association. It won't qualify for affiliation because it does not allow non-Christians (although it's definition of a Christian is rather narrow: sola scriptura, sola fide as per its Constitution) to hold positions on its committee. Therefore it does not meet SA equal opportunities procedures.

I am not sure its position on LGBT issues, but the first point is enough to exclude it from SA affiliation.

However SA affiliation would not help the achieve the CU's aims, it gets plenty of support and funding from the Universities and Colleges Christian Fellowship (UCCF).

[Dirty old Man]

I believe that the CU used to be affiliated to the Union in some capacity. Back in the 1990's they were supposedly disaffiliated for the reason stated above (Non-Christian caveats of membership). Of course this was always the case. This move may have been an act of revanchism after certain members of the CU tried to mob the AGM's of a number of societies, got elected to all the positions and moved to disaffiliate. they found disreputable, and moved to disaffiliate them (Pagan Soc was the main one I heard of. LGBT may have been one. I wouldn't be suprised if Rocksoc also featured, based on the self-righteous attitude certain current members of the CU have displayed towards it).

This comes straight out of the rumour mill, and it could well be bullshit. As for the here and now, the Union and the CU aren't exactly drawing battle lines. the CU were at the freshers fayre, and two CU projects; CMaD and Solid Rock remain affiliated societies.

[Al]

The CU was affiliated to the SA once upon a time.

[Delts]

This reminds me that I really should try and get an FSMsoc going.

[Haunted]

I toyed with the idea of trying to start an FSMsoc or similar, but ideas sometimes get lost in a sea of laziness.
I'd join one if it existed, and I can imagine there'd be a lot of interest from other students.

[Frank]

I always felt the Uni could do with an actively 'sceptical' society. Not as necessarily 'areligion' as FSM , but something that y'know...is all about the reason and thinking and interesting stuff. Cafe Scientifique is quite close, but a little...too sciencey for my tastes in this (if anyone listsens to the SGU you might see what I mean). I know there's the alternative medicine society (which welcomes 'true believers and sceptics alike' ), but a nice cheerful sceptic/science society would be quite endearing. Then we can have a proper go at that crazy crystal shop...

Still, I always assumed that the CU would've been disaffiliated (if it ever was) on the comittee-decision thing. I'd heard we horror stories about letting catholics in only if they signed a form or something wacky, but I'm quite doubtful of that.

[Dirty old Man]

Good to see The Sinner is still on form, raging against the belief machine. I suppose the CU will silently take the criticism, thanks to its being really big and powerful, and thus not having to care what other people think.

Frank, have you considered the National Secular Society as an alternative? Everyone free to practise their own religion, without imposing it on others; separating church and state; keeping religion out of politics. Sounds like my cup of tea!

[Jormungand]

I too wish there was a non-religious/sceptical/humanist/secular/etc society. I was surprised that St. Andrews lacks one, especially since most universities I've looked at do.

[D.O.M.]

I too wish there was a non-religious/sceptical/humanist/secular/etc society. I was surprised that St. Andrews lacks one, especially since most universities I've looked at do.

There's always means to set one up!

[Jormungand]

I too wish there was a non-religious/sceptical/humanist/secular/etc society. I was surprised that St. Andrews lacks one, especially since most universities I've looked at do.

There's always means to set one up!

Aye, I know. And I wouldn't be averse to helping run one. The thing is that being a First Year I'm still learning the ropes, so I'd rather someone else took the initiative and I'd help in any way I could. If there isn't one by next year I'll certainly look into the possibility of setting one up.

[James Shield]

If you decide to set the society up, you can find everything you need to know here:

http://www.yourunion.net/content/index.php?page=18451

[Haunted]

Is there still a socs fair for the second semester?
We could easily get 20 people on a facebook group by then. Anyone?

[Jono]

There is, although the dates are TBC. RAG week has booked out most of the building for the usual time (no good do-gooders!). I'll be sending information around as soon as I know, once my dissertation is done.

Edit: Oh yeah. If anybody want's to discuss setting up societies, send me an email on Socs@st-andrews.ac.uk. Don't expect any kind of response until after Friday though.

[Delts]

Is there still a socs fair for the second semester?
We could easily get 20 people on a facebook group by then. Anyone?

Look at the other thread that I made in the societies suggestions.

[Andy Monkey B]

(Ah the sinner, what a wonderful alternative to sleep and/or writing a CV)

I'm sure the CU was at one stage affiliated with the Students Association, and I'm sure it was probably the issue of exclusivity that was the motivating factor for the disaffiliation. I do know some folk who were around at the time, so I might ask around. I would be wary of rumours of CU-based campaigns against other societies. It would be a bit of a pointless effort on the CU's part to go about doing some of the things that they have been accused of doing over the years, and certainly there has been no activity against any society or person from the CU in the past few years, if ever.

On another note, the Constitution of the CU is here:

http://www.saucu.com/index.php?n=About.Constitution

This is probably an outdated constitution, but the majority of it still stands.

In particular section 4.1 states that all members must "conscientiously subscribe" to the statement of faith. The statement as the Bible as the "final authority in all matters of faith and conduct" could possibly cause some friction with Roman Catholics who would recognise the authority of the Pope as equal to or greater than the Bible (I'm not terribly well versed in Catholic doctrine of Papal authority - although the Catholic Catechism seems to only suggest the Pope has authority over matters of the church?). In any case, the writers of the constitution assert that the recognition of Biblical authority is a matter fundamental to the faith.

Secondly in section 6.3, committee members must sign the Doctrinal Basis of Faith as described in section 3 (a fairly basic outline of Christian beliefs, backed up by the Bible), and section 5.2.3 requires that they be in full agreement with it. In this respect, those who do not hold these beliefs are excluded from holding committee positions. The Doctrinal Basis of faith is there to protect the societies aims, as outlined in section 2, a fairly prudent and benevolent purpose. If someone ran for office within the CU who disagreed with the Doctrinal Basis and was determined to undermine these aims, it would not be the signing of the DBF that would stop them, but hopefully the voting of the members who intend to uphold these aims.

In principle it would be possible for a large number of people to join the society, vote in a non-Christian committee and disband it, but you would have to find 300 people willing to pay £3 each and give up a few hours on a Tuesday night.

[Mr Comedy]

Couple of points as a former CU member and hack:

- The reason the CU is not affiliated is due to membership not being open to everyone, so this is the primary reason.
- The elections run somewhat differently in the CU, consisting of the outgoing committee discussing and praying about it and then presenting a list of nominations for individual positions. You can nominate someone to run as well as a normal member
- The CU has never in my knowledge forced the closure of any societies, and I've got no idea why we would want to either.
- You could in theory close the CU down by getting c.300 people to join then electing them all to the committee, but firstly it's a pretty sad thing to want to do, and secondly largely pointless as the CU would almost instantly re-form.