Gawd bless 'em, every one!

[Thackary]

http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/Press/press125.html

'If this show cast Mohammed as a sexual deviant, it would never see the light of day. But those staging Jerry Springer the Opera are too cowardly to have a go at Islam. They know that Christians do not resort to violence and they think they will get away with it.'

But the show isn't about Mohammed as a sexual deviant, so it's not really up to those staging it to change the subject matter.
If one were to change the Merchant of Venice so it were set in Mumbai, it would no longer be the Merchant of Venice.

I understand that people may very well be upset with the subject matter and the way it might be presented, but isn't it healthy to take a fresh look at one's beliefs every now and again? If one's belief is so strong, then it can withstand the occasional questioning, surely?

And in any case, any claims of blasphemy are not really well founded, as the performance is to take place within the realms of theatre, where free speech is supported.

Christian Voice have invited and encouraged their members to attend the venue in protest, by handing out leaflets and singing hymns. I for one hope that they are the jolly, upbeat hymns, and not the dreary dirges that we so often hear. (see Eddie Izzard - @3:25 - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ope-1Zb5t-k )

Here's the Wikipedia entry for Jerry Springer - The Opera:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Springer_-_The_Opera

What do you think? Should it go ahead? Are Christian Voice right to raise such a protest? Is it all harmless fun or is it an insult to the Christian god and religion?

[Humphrey]

I don't know whether it is a representative sample but virtually all the Christians I know are united in regarding Christian Voice as a bunch of pillocks. If Christianity can survive the ignominious death of its founder, the non-appearance of the apocalypse, the repression of Julian the Apostate, the enlightenment, German higher criticism, communism, fascism, the findings of modern science and the Da vinci code, it can survive a bit of theatrical cross-dressing.

[What?]

It's a story...an interpretation. They're not making it out to be factual as far as I can tell! It would appear the Christian Voice is all for freedom of speech as long as it sings their God's praises.

It all makes me think of the furore after the release of the Life of Brian, when archbishops and cardinals were complaining and shouting on a chat show, and John Cleese watches in silence until the very last minute when he quietly says 'But it's about Brian'.

The article seems a bit insecure about their own message...

[Haunted]

It shouldn't be called Christian Voice, it should be "A Christian voice", Stephen Green's, and he's an utter moron.

[Humphrey]

Love finding gems on wikipedia like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gr ... tian_Voice)

'Another scene covered one of the Christian Voice's many protest "witnessings" against the theatre run of the controversial musical Jerry Springer: The Opera. After giving thanks that the show had reached its final night at the venue, Green was hit by a bird dropping as he spoke a prayer in the street, which he interpreted as a message from God to cease talking to the TV crew.'

Shame he didn't interpret it as a message from God telling him to shut the f**k up.

[JohnMac]

Jerry Springer The Opera is shaping up to be a fantastic show! I encourage you all to come and see it and make up your own minds. You never know - you might even get to meet our friend Stephen Green!

Feel free to join the facebook group.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3 ... 212&ref=ts

John

[L.M.]

Whilst I understand that this show will inevitably not appeal to everyone (not every show does) it is a fantastic opportunity to experience a mind-blowing piece of musical theatre which mocks modern trashy and television driven culture and puts it into perspective. To quote from the show, "we eat, excrete and watch tv"- is this what has become of people's lives now?
Tolerance is not only important to Christians but to all human beings and this Christian Voice campaign seems to compromise this quality.
It will be a fantastic show, a visually spectacular feast! I encourage everyone to make up their own minds and to make an informed decision.

L

[elyettoner]

As a Christian I find Christian Voice's response and desire to protest rather unhelpful. It mainly contributes towards the opinion that many have of Christians as self-righteous and up themselves. An opinion that might sometimes be founded but is mostly, I think, incorrect. It would be much better for them to hold some sort of talk explaining where this particular piece of theatre portrayal of Christianity and Christ deviates from the truth in a reasoned and respectable way. In fact, it provides the perfect opportunity for explaining what Christianity is really about. Perhaps the Christian Union could do something along these lines to counter Christian Voice's actions?

On the other hand, however, and in response to L.M.'s comment about tolerance, it's quite easy to shout about tolerance when you feel you're the one being got at. I can't help thinking that this show has been chosen because of its potential to generate controversy and offend. If the way the media portrayal the story is correct (for I haven't seen the show) then it is deeply offensive to Christians and shows very little respect or tolerance for their views and beliefs. Tolerance works both ways, and for someone to demand tolerance of their opinions without showing tolerance themselves is a wee bit hypocritical.

[RandomMusings]

[Bizarre Atheist]

I am so proud to be a St Andrean right now.

I saw it in London, and a bloody fantastic show it was too. When the tap dancing KKK started to a backdrop of a flaming cross I nearly wept with delight. I cannot wait to see it in St Andrews...

(and I never use smilies!)

[the Empress]

I saw it on TV when it was broadcast a couple of years ago . . . . great music. Cracktastic . . . . I find it worrying the number of religous debates creeping onto the Sinner though. It's blergh. How much more is there to say??? Find it weird the whole 'don't criticise Christianity, it's offensive'. I mean, Christianity is a huge part of this country's heritage - even if you're not Christian; those 'stories' belong to non-Christian's as well. Hmm, I'm worried this isn't clear.

[JohnMac]

I can't help thinking that this show has been chosen because of its potential to generate controversy and offend. If the way the media portrayal the story is correct (for I haven't seen the show) then it is deeply offensive to Christians and shows very little respect or tolerance for their views and beliefs. Tolerance works both ways, and for someone to demand tolerance of their opinions without showing tolerance themselves is a wee bit hypocritical.

As the director of the show, and as a christian, I can assure you that the show has not been chosen to offend. It is a show based on satire, and not a dislike of religion, and will be presented as such. I clearly have a very different interpretation to Christianity than Stephen Green does, but this does not mean that I want to offend him. Tolerance does work both ways - I consider myself to be very tolerant. Please spend the time to watch the show before condeming it. The medias portrayl of the show is largely down to the press release offered by Christian Voice, and does not represent the true plot of the show.

Jerry Springer The Opera is the only show in British history to win all of the peoples choice awards for musical theatre, as well as recieving a number of other awards (ome critics even claimed it was the best piece of musical theatre to be seen in over 40 years!). chose this show because I believe it is a fantastic show with a marvelous score! It is a show that not only pushes the boundaries of student theatre in St Andews - but also throughout the UK. We should be proud that the university supports such an effort, rather than criticise because of a misunderstanding about the fundamental issues the show addresses. If anyone would like to discuss the show further or has concerns then please feel free to contact me at 'jam69@st-andrews.ac.uk'. This show is meant to entertian - not offend.

[Haunted]

I can't help thinking that this show has been chosen because of its potential to generate controversy and offend.

Another case of "christian persecution complex"?

If the way the media portrayal the story is correct (for I haven't seen the show) then it is deeply offensive to Christians and shows very little respect or tolerance for their views and beliefs.

One should be cautious about passing judgement without even being aware of what you're passing judgement on. And, even if it were 'deeply offensive', then so what? You don't have to go and see it, no one is forcing it down your throat. If something happens to offend you, you don't have an automatic right to have it silenced, that is sheer arrogance.

Tolerance works both ways, and for someone to demand tolerance of their opinions without showing tolerance 1themselves is a wee bit hypocritical.

Pandering to a vocal minority =/= Tolerance.

[Lindsey.M.]

I just wanted to add that the show is called "JERRY SPRINGER: The Opera" and not "Jesus, Son of God: The Opera", just as "The Life of Brian" was not "The Life of Jesus Christ". This show focuses on the Jerry Springer Show, a show watched by masses of people all over the world and yet it doesn't solve any of the problems which it sets out to, as Jerry says in the opera "I don't solve peoples problems, I just televise them", so why do people watch it? Is it entertainment? What is entertainment?

As a Christian I do not find the show blasphemous at all nor do I find it offensive, it's a super show which raises many intriguing issues about contemporary culture and the score is absolutely fantastic. Personally I find Stephen Greens contributions lacking in sense and as I've said before, tolerance. As for the whole blasphemy hoo-hah "it is not the state's place to defend ideas and faiths - religions should be strong enough to defend themselves [...] it is unacceptable in a multi-faith society."- Trevor Phillips (British Humanist Society)

Amen to that.

[elyettoner]

I can't help thinking that this show has been chosen because of its potential to generate controversy and offend.

Another case of "christian persecution complex"?

Not at all, it just seems that two potentially insulting shows at the same university within five years both of which provoke controversy over the figure of Jesus seems a little too coincidental, but I may be wrong.

[quote]Anyone should be cautious about passing judgement without even being aware of what you're passing judgement on. And, even if it were 'deeply offensive', then so what? You don't have to go and see it, no one is forcing it down your throat. If something happens to offend you, you don't have an automatic right to have it silenced, that is sheer arrogance.[quote]

I'd have thought a simple conditional clause would have been easy enough to understand, but apparently not. I said that if the media's portrayal were correct then it is offensive, in the full knowledge of the media's custom of not portraying things correctly. As for considering it an automatic right to have it silenced, I don't. I was merely noting the hypocrisy in shouting about Christian Voice's lack of tolerance when the show itself is potentially offensive and thus isn't exactly an example of tolerance itself.

As an aside, please don't presume me to be a defender of Christian Voice, nor a critic of the show. These are but observations.

[Bizarre Atheist]

I can't help thinking that this show has been chosen because of its potential to generate controversy and offend.

Another case of "christian persecution complex"?

Not at all, it just seems that two potentially insulting shows at the same university within five years both of which provoke controversy over the figure of Jesus seems a little too coincidental, but I may be wrong.

You're right. Guys, we're not pulling our weight. I propose weekly screenings of the Life of Brian, declare that Corpus Christi and Jerry Springer will show for a four-week run in alternate semesters, and in the meantime I'll get started on my meisterwerk: a psychedelic glamcore rock opera exploring the clear genealogical links between Hitler and John the Baptist. Yes. Yes indeed.

[removes tongue from cheek]

No, St Andrews is not a cesspit of Christian-baiting heathens looking to aggravate Christian Voice (though it is a delightful side-effect). St Andrews is a university full of innovative and interesting students who - thank the gods - strive to save us from the drudgery that many other universities' dramatic societies wheel out year after year. I am delighted that we as an institution don't fade into the background of the higher education community. What has Durham done of interest recently? When did Sheffield last hit the headlines? On behalf of those who despise mediocrity, in all its hideous forms: JohnMac and your team, I salute you.

More wine please, vicar!

[Anon.]

Er, which headlines has this actually hit? And do you think that it hit the headlines because of the production's dramatic merit, or because of its sensation-value?

[Lindsey.M.]

The Press and Journal, The Observer, The Courier and inside page headline of The Scotland on Sunday. And to answer the other question, for the media, both. They do what they want to sell a story, if you come along and see the show you will see for yourself. As for the show it won all 4 people's choice awards, the only piece of musical theatre to ever do this and it has been acclaimed by critics all over the world for its stunning music and story. It has plenty of artistic merit, musical theatre is an art after all.
I suggest before criticising the show that you should come along and see it and make an informed decision.

[Barry the Barron]

Not at all, it just seems that two potentially insulting shows at the same university within five years both of which provoke controversy over the figure of Jesus seems a little too coincidental, but I may be wrong.

There are around 20 student productions a year in St Andrews. Over 5 years this amounts to around 100. 2 out of 100 is a very small percentage. In fact, I'd say that in any decent university I would hope that more than 2% of their plays would be offensive in the sense that satire and commenting on the world around you and the things you see as ridiculous or hypocritical is a massive part of being young and making art. See "punk" for further reference. Jerry Springer is mainly offensive to anyone who sits at home and watches bad, exploitative daytime tv. That would generally be students then (hideous stereotype there - sorry!).

The thing to remember here is - and I don't wish to shock anyone - it's just a play. It's not trying to get people to go out and hurt each other, and you don't have to go and see it if you don't want to. Your beliefs are personal and religion is personal. Concentrate on the things that matter - protest against war, against famine, against torture. Not against theatre - in the end, it's just not that important.

[Haunted]

I'd have thought a simple conditional clause would have been easy enough to understand, but apparently not. I said that if the media's portrayal were correct then it is offensive, in the full knowledge of the media's custom of not portraying things correctly. As for considering it an automatic right to have it silenced, I don't. I was merely noting the hypocrisy in shouting about Christian Voice's lack of tolerance when the show itself is potentially offensive and thus isn't exactly an example of tolerance itself.

As an aside, please don't presume me to be a defender of Christian Voice, nor a critic of the show. These are but observations.

No you still don't get it. It is not hypocritical to point out how much of a moron Mr Green is AND allow that a potentially offensive performance continue. It would only be hypocritical if we wanted to forcefully silence Mr Green, which we do not (he's a good source of laughter after all).

This isn't about tolerance, it's about freedom of expression.