Andy Monkey B wrote:Bad theology there. You can abstain all you like, you can never use condoms, you can get married and have lots of lovely sex and produce lots of lovely children, you can do amazingly selfless things comparable to mother teresa, you can go to confession every morning and spend the rest of the day on your knees on a cold stone floor, you can be baptised, confirmed, eucharist-ed, ordained, married or unction-ed, you can be the pope and do popey things, but you'll still go to hell if you don't have faith. Telling people not to sin doesn't make them sinless, sin is a condition, not an action. And doing good things won't make you righteous, salvation is by faith alone.
Your preamble suggests that actions have nothing to do with salvation, and then you explicitly say
'sin is a condition, not an action'. So you are saying that it is not possible to sin. Who has the bad theology now? And not just bad theology but commiting linguistic heresy by denying that sin is a verb as well as a noun.
To be very Catholic about this it is
both. Sin is a condition
and an action. As was already stated by starsandsparkles, grace is an important concept in understanding salvation and the role of sin. What did Jesus die for if not our sins? Perhaps we do not have the same definition of sin, so let me bring you up to speed. Mortal sin, by which we have chosen to sever ourselves from the grace of God, must be:
1) Grievous in matter
2) Committed in full knowledge that it is a sin and grievous
3) In full freedom and consent.
As starsandsparkles also stated, grace is a gift freely given by God and unmerited by ourselves. However we have free will and can chose to remain in this state or reject the will / laws of God or God himself. If we die unrepented in this state it is understood that we have rejected the salvation wrought by Jesus. This is what is understood as the effects of mortal sin.
Through confession we are not re-earning our salvation by our actions, we obviously can never do this. However what we are doing is acknowledging our wronging doing (confessing), making an expression of true regret (contrition), as well as a firm commitment not to do it again. The confession is not valid unless there is true contrition and commitment to ammend one's life. As starsandsparkles said a sacrament is an outward sign of an inward grace, through confession therefore, we are restored to full grace in God's eyes. This grace strengthens us in the future and marks us as saved.
As starsandsparkles as said, it should be obvious and implicit that none of this could be achieved if one did not have faith in God.
Andy Monkey B wrote:What's the distinction between artificial and natural contraceptive methods btw, if you're not trying to divorce sex from procreation? Not an argument really, I've just never asked.
I would not use the term natural contraceptive methods, because the term contraceptive is the problem. It is to be used and regarded at all times as natural family planning (NFP). As starsandsparkles said it can be used, wrongly, with a contraceptive mentality. NFP exploits the natural infertile parts of the menstrual cycle, but rather than using the calendar based 'Rhythm method', it now relies on a symptoms based approach (cervical mucus et al.) which has a degree of efficacy approaching that of barrier methods.
However the approach is very different in that the married couple are choosing to space their children or limit the number of children for financial or health reasons. However there are always open to new children at all times, to which contraception can never be, both in mentality and practice. NFP must also be practiced with generosity, that is to have a family size that is within their means. This of course is a matter of conscience of the couples.
"Progress should mean that we are always changing the world to fit the vision, instead we are always changing the vision."
- G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1908
