Successful?

[the Empress]

I was wondering what you guys considered a 'successful' life to be? And whether you meet the criteria? I recently had an interview in which not only were my credentials questioned (frustratingly but understandably due to a largely non-science undergrad despite appropriate post-grad qual) but I was deemed (explicitly) at high risk of 'loneliness' as I lacked a partner or children to take abroad with me. Which . . . is the first time I considered this to be a negative factor in applying for jobs (especially abroad). I admit to considering having relationship(s) and fulfilling career (including travel) and/or an amazing talent like music or art, to add up to success. Um, which I don't really have. But - thats quite a load to be 'successful'.

So what do you guys think? What would you class as successful (in life generally)? Do you think you are or do you too have moments of inadequacy . . . . and I mean, successful as in what you really think/feel (however irrational) - that drives embaressed coughing at parties - as opposed to being, y'know, pc.

[Frank]

A successful life, IMO, would be one in which one is content. Either content in having achieved a status, or content with the level of challenges being presented. Or even being faced with no challenges and being able to react.

Which is to say: success in life has always meant to me that different folks have different measures. Some folks won't feel someone else has been successful until they've killed a man, had a baby or really 'done' something with their life (had their name associated with something lots of people have heard of).

For my own status, I think a successful life would be one in which my objectives haven't been too far beyond my means. Conducting myself through an MPhys hasn't been the most sterling success of my life, but then there are other aspects where I've been pleasantly surprised at my own success, and others where a measure of 'success' is something I've always deemed as just a little arbitrary (being innately good at sports was something I was always illogically disdainful of, for instance...presumably correlated to my own sporting incompetence). The idea of having a partner and kids is an intriguing achievement, but not one I'd count as successful by necessity. Indeed: being caught in an unsuccessful relationship has been the major failure of my life so far, one of the few resounding 'not-a-success' events I've really felt.

In the spirit of putting a list of 'measurable' successful life aims which aren't terribly remarkable:
- A group of friends and colleagues with whom you're comfortable around
- A group of friends and colleagues (can be the same as above) with whom you're stimulated by (in whatever aspects are important to you: music, humour, specific elements of academia, reading, ability to have fun, pleasant to pass time with)
- At least a small list of people who'd vouch for your having had a pleasant or remarkable influence on their life
- Having financially, emotionally or otherwise secured yourself a minimum of comfort for the forseeable future

In this regard it's my suspicion that almost everyone, using this list, would be judged to have led a successful life. For my part, I'd say this largely encompasses the needs of 'having a kid' or 'getting laid regularly/enough' or 'being married' and other such...arbitrary measures.

Even being a miserable failure at every objective you turn your hand to still can leave you with a 'successful life', but then I suspect the successful life we all yearn for is not one which easily bypasses the vagaries of life in general. As they say:

"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all..."

[Aureliano]

I also feel that success in one's own life should be measured by a feeling of balance and contentment. But as Frank already suggested, this can be attained in a number of ways. Some people are happy to live on a razor's edge, with life-changing challenges around every corner. Others seek out the simple, quiet life.

Something rather spiritual that I have also placed a lot of value in recently is the idea that people should strive to have a strong knowledge/understanding of themselves.
I would argue that joe bloggs who can look to the future by understanding and coming to terms with his past choices/relations/mistakes has led a much more successful life than the high-flying business mogul / celebrity etc who keeps skeletons in their closet.

Personally I have been stuck in recession and temp (un)employment woes for the past year or so. I am generally quite happy with myself and my personal life, but currently feel utterly unfulfilled on a day-to-day career basis.

Finally some food for thought in the words of Robert Heinlein:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

[Hennessy]

I want to be an arms dealer

[Craig]

I just hope I make it to the end of mine's alive.

[Duggeh]

My long term ambitions include:

Aquisition of a job which I enjoy. Although I hold no idle hope that I shall ever find one which I love. Which need not make me rich and wealthy, so long as it meets my sufficiencies.

The successful filing of an original patent or multiple patents pertaining to an invention (I have an idea for an original device already, but it will be many years before I have anything resembling a prototype and my searches on google patents have uncovered nothing of any specific similarity). Having any money be made via this patent would be a bonus.

The publication of an academic book (hopefully an original one, or a groundbreaking *cough* one) which recieves positive appraisal (again, this will, if ever, be many years from now). My fictional prose is too weak for me to ever hope to have a novel published.

Publication of a hobbiest reference excyclopedia, or similar.


Albert Einstein said:

"A happy man is too satisfied with the present to dwell too much on the future."

Sage chap. And he said that well before he discovered the photoelectric effect too.

I am happy with where I am, in spite my lack of specific drive and direction (I have always had a slight envy for those who went through high school knowing they wanted to become a doctor, went to univeristy, became doctors and are now happy as doctors). One may supplant any other career choice in lieu of "doctor" it was just the closest stereotype of such a pattern I had to hand. There are (no doubt) those who know me that would contend that I'm not as happy as I make out to be, they confuse happiness with joy, or perhaps consider happiness to be an antirequisate of being readily irritated.

I also, while holding that small envy for the specific goal driven achievers, have often found myself with a reflective quantity of pity or sympathy for them, because in my experience it is that sort of person who finds the least satisfaction in the enjoyment of everyday pleasures, like a pint of good ale, and are often incapable of enjoying themselves by means of anything which might be classified as "idle" by want of the fact that it does not strive.


-edited for clarification-

[schmod]

[the Empress]

came across this awesome success today . . . . (short version of vid)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_xFNa7Y ... re=related

'I dreamed a dream' from Les Mis is one of my favourite songs . . . . and she did it justice. Everyone laughed at her for saying she wanted to be as famous as Elaine Paige but she totally kicked their asses!

[LonelyPilgrim]

Success. Well... a story then. About a week ago, I attended a small seminar at a prominent American university. At this seminar were three professors, holders of PhDs, working more or less in my old discipline. One was even the head of a research institute. These were men who had travelled the world, written extensively, and earned prominent chairs at a prestigious university. Intimidating men.

As many of you may be aware, I did not complete my undergraduate degree at St Andrews, for a variety of reasons, and have not returned to higher education to complete it anywhere else as yet. Over the years this has been a major source of insecurity for me. I've walked on other university campuses with a sense of inferiority. Coming from a broken family of modest means, and a rather backward part of my country, meant my travel to study in Scotland at a world-class university was about more than an education to me. I had rational reasons for quitting my studies, but that hasn't helped me cope with the irrational sense of having failed at the great adventure of my life.

Yet, when the question and answer period for this seminar came around I managed to get the first question in to the panel. I introduced myself, told them my position and the nature of my employers business, and proceeded to ask what should have been an easy question for these men of learning. Instead, they had no answer and had to guess: they guessed wrong. What followed was 6 or 7 minutes of them asking me questions about a topic they should have known better than me, but about which they were completely ignorant. After the seminar ended, they were quick to seek me out in the milling crowd, give me their cards, and express great desire to be of service if they could. I had intimidated them.

The seminar was on the global financial crisis' impact on Third World development prospects and the panellists were experts on global trade, global development and inequality, and Third World politics. My questions and the conversation that ensued were to do with the political and economic environment and prospects for Somalia - a country one of the speakers had even mentioned in his part of the seminar. By any reasonable standard these men should have been able to answer simple questions about that country and its outlook since they are supposed to be experts on those very sorts of subjects and all three focus their work on Africa. Instead they were first like deer in the headlights and then like ingratiating puppies.

I've seen academics behave that way before in my discipline, which was IR, when 'practitioners' walk into the room - the men and women who do the real work of shaping the world. Even though I've had my current position for several months now, it hadn't occurred to me until that night that I'd become an IR practitioner: chief operating officer of an international charity. Admittedly we're very small, very poor, and it's a daily struggle to stay afloat, but... we're making a tangible difference. And I'm a practitioner - without a degree, without years working my way up through a bureaucracy, without waiting for someone to say, "Here you go, you deserve this job." That realisation felt a lot like success - but it's not because of the specific job I have: I love it, but I don't see myself doing it for the rest of my life. It's not because of any level of wealth or comfort: at the moment I'm barely being paid - the budget is too tight. It's not because of power: we're small, and we hope to have a major impact in humanitarianism within a few years, but right now... it's just a lot of hard work in the dark.

Rather, I think success is this: Success is realising that the world doesn't belong to the best educated, the best connected, the smartest, the prettiest, or even the most talented. The world belongs to the people with the will to act. It belongs to the people who do; who have the courage to implant their will upon the world outside their own minds. Degrees and job titles and money don't mean a damn if the cost of attaining them is always sacrificing or postponing the pursuit of your dreams. We aren't promised a tomorrow and everything you have can be taken away in an instant. The only thing you can fall back on is your own will: your own intimate knowledge that you will persevere or you will perish. That doesn't mean education, or wealth, or job security are bad things... they are usually good. But they are merely tools: means to an end.

As for myself, I will show respect where respect is due and I will even show deference where deference is due, but I know I won't be intimidated again because I know what I want and I'm not afraid to pursue it and no one else can stop me from making my best effort every single day. If that isn't real success, I don't think the word has value.

[Jono]

Who was it that said that; "success and failure are two sides of the same coin?"

I guess it really depends on what you value in life and how you intend to get it. Once you've got that model, I suppose success could be measured by measuring how far you've achieved goals. I don't think there's a valuable measure of success and failure outside of one's own world-view and self-perception.

[Hennessy]

came across this awesome success today . . . . (short version of vid)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_xFNa7Y ... re=related

'I dreamed a dream' from Les Mis is one of my favourite songs . . . . and she did it justice. Everyone laughed at her for saying she wanted to be as famous as Elaine Paige but she totally kicked their asses!

Yes, pity can be a terrible thing...

[the Empress]

admittedly I only watched the vid, but pity shouldn't come into it. She does have real talent (although I have better versions of the song, but everyone has diff vocal prefs); as for makeover issues, she just needs some eyebrow thinning and different clothes. I think she's quite pretty and confident *shrug*

The angst prompting this thread has faded anyway . . . . I achieved catharsis through angsty music, dancing and alcohol (which, er, I now, as always, regret) Y'know, the healthy approach. Most people gave strangely generic replies though. But I agree with LonelyPilgrim's perspective re: academics. I find more self-worth in practical applications then theory, which is endlessly frustrating.

[Duggeh]

She's got no more talent than countless hundreds of session singers. She's just fortuitous in going viral because she looks like a train accident and like the people that go far in these shambolic shells of programmes, has got her varient on the sob story. All of the fucking faux surprise from that vile Morgan and that insidious (but at least not odious) Cowell and the wellspring of people rushing to instill her alongside people like The late Sir Clement as some kind of national treasure. What absolute arsebiscuits. I've no time for the vaccuous, oil coated media gremlin nonsense. What a shame she had to be "discovered" in such a manner.

The always enjoyable Clive James was far too restrained in his otherwise pretty good commentary on the matter in case there are those of you who don't subscribe to the BBC Radio 4 "A Point OF View" podcast.

[the Empress]

If it gets her where she wants to go, should it really matter? She'd only maintain her fame in the long-term if she's talented (music isn't as forgiving as other reality genres). So the reasons for the initial media career boost are irrelevant. And . . . I don't think she looks that bad, and I *am* annoyed about media attitudes to *not* making her over, as though she should be preserved in some 'wild' state. She's OK, but maybe needs a style change. It's easy to get stuck in a rut . . . . so she's pretty normal and *not* a trainwreck. People can be so awful about how others look, especially if they're not conventionally good-looking (for women small nose, thin, blah blah). I wish I could kick everyone like that. I was out on Saturday, and the people I were with were just criticising everyone's clothes, about being slags . . . I pointed out *I* was wearing a dress to only mid-thigh, and then got loads of compliments . . . urgh, the hypocrisy.

[munchingfoo]

I don't think her looks are as much of a story as the fact that she's still a vrigin. Not just a virgin through choice mind you, as she pointed out on her first show.

[the Empress]

wow, I missed that. Why would she admit it? Mortifying.

[Hennessy]

If it gets her where she wants to go, should it really matter? She'd only maintain her fame in the long-term if she's talented (music isn't as forgiving as other reality genres). So the reasons for the initial media career boost are irrelevant. And . . . I don't think she looks that bad, and I *am* annoyed about media attitudes to *not* making her over, as though she should be preserved in some 'wild' state. She's OK, but maybe needs a style change. It's easy to get stuck in a rut . . . . so she's pretty normal and *not* a trainwreck. People can be so awful about how others look, especially if they're not conventionally good-looking (for women small nose, thin, blah blah). I wish I could kick everyone like that. I was out on Saturday, and the people I were with were just criticising everyone's clothes, about being slags . . . I pointed out *I* was wearing a dress to only mid-thigh, and then got loads of compliments . . . urgh, the hypocrisy.

It's not because of her looks or her talented singing, it's the way she's going to be swept up and spat out, manipulated and cheated by an industry that only has the capacity for deception in lieu of emotion. It disgusts me to the core the people who put her there are the same people that will treat her like she is handicapped, and should be grateful of their indulgence in making her famous. It is the lowest form of life I think anyone has ever invented, and it's "Made in Britain" as emphatically as all the unwanted invisible financial exports we used to sell. A husk of a country, then, dedicated completely to the pursuit of superficial gain for the spoilt and nannied masses who utterly fail to cope with their own inadequacies while cheerleading their own exploitation.

Pity ain't the word.

[the Empress]

how patronizing. Like she's a victim, lacking the capacity for self-determination? Thank goodness you can enlighten her with your worldly ways!

[LonelyPilgrim]

She can sing. Sure, other people can sing as well, but where are they and what are they doing about it? This woman took action, she *did* something to be discovered. Again, the world belongs to those with the will to take action.

And most of you are jealous of her success and choosing to regard her as a side-show freak. Bloody disgusting. Instead of sitting around tearing down other's victories, why not go do something equally noteworthy?

[novium]

I don't think her looks are as much of a story as the fact that she's still a vrigin. Not just a virgin through choice mind you, as she pointed out on her first show.

She was joking. But it got all blown out of proportion.

She's a decent singer, but there's something creepy about the media circus. All very....condescending.