americans

[hmmmmmmm]

i just read a very strange article in the sunday times. apparently in schools textbooks in the USA things like dinosaurs are banned (supports the theory of evolution), wrinkled old people(stereotype), orphans(might emotionally upset the children)+ lots more. anyone find this very very disturbing?

[Greebo]

Must...resist...obvious...remark.....gahhhh!

[hr]http://greebopichost.netfirms.com - Loadsa drunken photos and suchlikes.

[Blessed Benediction]

banning dinosaurs i don't agree with quite so much. the others though have a point. i have to question whether negative comments should be included in textbooks. for example in a language textbook should a phrase like 'you are ugly' be acceptable seeing as it almost encourages folk to be negative & mean, it would certainly puts out a message that it's quite acceptable to be mean. always hard to say what's overstepping the line & stuff. there's also a slight cruel to be kind factor. afterall folk are gonna be cunts to eachother anyway (maybe) so you might as well get used to it, kind of thing.

[hr]watches should have a smiley face on them as it's always time to be happy

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Shouldn't they only ban the "evil" dinosaurs?

[Leticia]

Look, in one Southern state (Mississippi or Alabama, I think), they've banned evolution from schools because it contradicts the Bible, supposedly. But the rest of the children in the States are subjected to dinosaurs and the like.

[Cain]

[s]Unregisted User Leticia wrote on 15:45, 5th May 2003:
But the rest of the children in the States are subjected to dinosaurs and the like.


Subjected to? Dinosaurs are ace.

there should be a module on them in ancient history or biology

[hr]
whoever kills Cain will suffer a sevenfold vengeance

[fiftyfive]

GOD BLESS AMERICA

[Al]

How does this subjection by dinosaurs manifest itself? I bet it's bullying, isn't it? Dinosaurs can be terrible bullies with their sharp teeth and claws, their native cunning and their dead, dead eyes (or is that sharks?)

[hr]"Stupidity is the devil. Look in the eye of a chicken and you'll know. It's the most horrifying, cannibalistic, and nightmarish creature in this world."

[Cain]

[s]Al wrote on 17:34, 5th May 2003:
How does this subjection by dinosaurs manifest itself? I bet it's bullying, isn't it? Dinosaurs can be terrible bullies with their sharp teeth and claws, their native cunning and their dead, dead eyes (or is that sharks?)


it'll be because the earth is only (old testament age) old, and god created man, not dinosaurs.

Dinosaur bones were tricks placed there by god to test our faith, or a theory along those lines.

[hr]
whoever kills Cain will suffer a sevenfold vengeance

[nova]

I heard they were banned because they believed in transubstantiation, which is obviously complete rubbish, and also because when you lend them money they never pay it back. The bastards.

[hr]"Won't you tell me, brave captain, why are the wicked so strong, how can the angels get to sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on."
- Tom Waits

[Emma]

Kansas is the state where they have to put stickers on biology textbooks stating that evolution is 'only a theory'.

President Bush has preferred not to comment on the matter, but I believe he has made remarks to the same effect in the past.

[teamonkey]

Maybe they can't mention dinosaurs because it's politically incorrect to mention the short arms. Can you imagine what it must feel like being a dinosaur with those tiny arms and no opposable thumb? How bitter must you feel? And you'd hate to be reminded, wouldn't you. Kids would go up to you in the street and shout "Oi! Short arms! Piss off!" So sad.

Also along the same lines, how would you feel if the fact that you had the brain the size of a pea announced to kids nationwide? And what about the fact that your entire species is extinct? That's got to sting.

[Al]

"it'll be because the earth is only (old testament age) old, and god created man, not dinosaurs."

Although I never have believed that dinosaurs created man it's slightly disconcerting to have my lack of belief upheld by the world's first murderer.

[hr]"Stupidity is the devil. Look in the eye of a chicken and you'll know. It's the most horrifying, cannibalistic, and nightmarish creature in this world."

[Buzzboy]

Quite right too. Evolution is still only a theory.

However, there are quite a few santa-sized sackfuls of evidence that support the theory (DNA for one) unlike the biblical tale of events in which there are the wibblings of a few discovery channel documentaries that say, "Well it could have happen that way, just like West Brom could have won the Premiership".

So, although it's only a theory, it's the best one we've got.

[Deej]

I'm not sure where the information came from that all these textbooks have such things banned from them, but my daughter's school (kindergarten - fifth grade) doesn't have anything of these sorts of things banned. Evolution is taught, and if a teacher tries to talk about creationism it is done extremely carefully, as a theory itself, so as not to offend those who might not like it "preached." Dinosaurs are definitely discussed, and as a substitute teacher myself I can say that none of the textbooks I have seen have tried to make everything "nice." There are holocaust photos in the fifth grade history textbooks, for instance, and pictures of families during the depression. Students--and I am in the Atlanta area here, so we are talking the south--also discuss lynching and other such atrocities when discussing early 20th century politics. In the highschools, it is much easier to discuss hard issues.

Teachers are not allowed to talk about religion in the schools. They are not allowed to overtly celebrate religious holidays or talk about faith-based anything. Students are discouraged from doing so, as well. Families are a very careful subject, also. These days a teacher hasn't got any idea whether a child lives with natural parents, step parents, guardians, foster families, or same-sex parents. So in kindergarten they don't have you talk about your family, but the persons you live with. And it goes on from there.

There is a lot of feel-good talk about tolerance and multiculturalism. Not only in the classrooms, but in the administration of the schools. Anybody caught giving a muslim person a hard time, for example, is subject to expulsion.

Many kids have to attend a "guidance" class, which teaches them (supposedly) the morals that their parents should have instilled in them already. Honesty. Compassion. Diligence. On a personal note, I think it's useless, but that's because I've already covered these things with my own kids, and don't care to have someone else trying to parent my child. If your kid has gone through a divorce or death in the family, they send out calls for you to let your kid go to special classes to help them deal with it. If your child doesn't speak English, he/she goes to special classes along with regular classes to help them learn. Where we are, there is a ton of hispanic influx, so many regular teachers have learned to speak Spanish. They get extra development credits to keep their teaching certificates to learn it.

Technology is huge in the classrooms, too--my second grader has laptops in her classroom for every student, and she has built a website of her own (if anybody wants to see it, reply).

I'm not at all saying American schools are the best. But they aren't so bad, either. There are so many things I would change, if I could--many areas are lacking. But they aren't as backward as ya'll might think. I think I happen to have a couple of pretty smart kids, so when I get to St. Andrews I hope they won't have to do too much catching up with their new schools over there.

Anyway, don't think too harshly about it all--particularly the south--unless you've spoken with somebody who's been amongst it. We get a bad rap for so many things, and really, it's not like people who aren't here perceive. I wish somebody would muzzle some of the press, who just report on what they think they see, instead of what's actually there.

End of soap boxing. Ask me about my kid's website.

[McK]

Thank you, Deej, for that excellent post. I think it's one of the most measured comments I have read on this site in a long while. You're right, of course: I suspect we hear a great deal of nonsense about the US education system over here, fuelled by a sensationalist press. Although, as you say, it probably varies from state to state.

[munchingfoo]

whats your kids website?

Is that ok

kinda ranks up there with call me a taxi!

[hr]Management: The art of writing like you know what you're talking about and making others believe it.

(munchingfoo comprehensive dictionary)

[Midget]

Excuse me but on this thread people, several people in fact have said that "creationism is a theory" and also "evolution is a theory" however there is a difference, evolution is a scientific theory backed by huge quantities of hard empirical evidence. Creationism is a theory in so much as the tooth-fairy, or pixies is a theory, creationism is a load of bible bullshit and theological titwank.

[McK]

Ah! The tone has been lowered - yet again - by someone from John Burnet. Now there's a surprise.

[Al]

If evolution is so hard to beat then why does it have to be backed up by "hard empirical evidence"? Can't it fight its own battles? You don't see creationism swaggering up and down the streets backed up by anything other than faith, do you?

[hr]"Stupidity is the devil. Look in the eye of a chicken and you'll know. It's the most horrifying, cannibalistic, and nightmarish creature in this world."