G20 Protests

[Frank]

[Senethro]

Meh.

[Noah Fence]

Did you hear about the five people arrested?

[Frank]

No?

(Is this a joke, if so what's the punchline?)

[DACrowe]

Did you hear about the five people arrested?

That's funny. I read the title of the neighbouring thread as 'The Guardbridge Five' and assumed it was something similar. I'm surprised St Andrews Police station actually has room enough to hold five people in it; what would be the point?

[Lukey2]

The road was blocked for over an hour. Apparently, Darling's opening speech had to be delayed by 45 minutes.

[Haunted]

TAKE THAT THATCHER!

[Fawksie]

They don't hold people in St Andrews station any more, they send them to Glenrothes, or possibly Kirkcaldy, can't recall exactly which

[Al]

Return of the Occupatorz! What joy!

[Jono]

The lefties are revolting!

Meh! Good for whoever went out there. If I was in a more cynical mood I'd point out the fallacy of an anti capitalist march perpetrated by students who would not be in university without the evil, usurious student loans underwriting their expenses. Today, I'm feeling more affable.

I looked at the FB group and was a little suprised. Is the Union actually backing these actions now? Quite a few affiliated societies and elected officals participating these days. Where's the spectre of charities law and ultra vires gone? Bruce must be losing his touch.

[Daniel]

I looked at the FB group and was a little suprised. Is the Union actually backing these actions now? Quite a few affiliated societies and elected officals participating these days. Where's the spectre of charities law and ultra vires gone? Bruce must be losing his touch.

Funny, I always thought it was one of the many purposes of a student union, to promote debate and discussion of global issues relevant to students.

Guess I was wrong.

To bad the sabs are as well.

Daniel

[Lukey2]

The lefties are revolting!

Meh! Good for whoever went out there. If I was in a more cynical mood I'd point out the fallacy of an anti capitalist march perpetrated by students who would not be in university without the evil, usurious student loans underwriting their expenses. Today, I'm feeling more affable.

I looked at the FB group and was a little suprised. Is the Union actually backing these actions now? Quite a few affiliated societies and elected officals participating these days. Where's the spectre of charities law and ultra vires gone? Bruce must be losing his touch.

No worries, Jono. The guests last Saturday were forced to sign in, and received repeated warning that they were to consume no food from the outside. Admittedly, I have no idea who you have been facebook stalking, but I am fairly sure you have the Put People First alternative summit confused with Nae Tae G20. The first was responsible for the ridiculous heads-in-the sand photo-opp, as well as the conference in the Union. They are an innocuously mainstream coalition, with Christian Aid and Oxfam topping the bill. Even with the Rector helping to run some of their events, I am not sure how the use of Union space is tantamount to official backing. Nae Tae G20, on the other hand, was a separate affair organized solely by students. While a number of elected hacks have indeed appeared in the Nae Tae G20 photos, no societies were officially involved, and, because we used none of its facilities, there is no spectre of the Union's tacit support.

[Frank]

I looked at the FB group and was a little suprised. Is the Union actually backing these actions now? Quite a few affiliated societies and elected officals participating these days. Where's the spectre of charities law and ultra vires gone? Bruce must be losing his touch.

Funny, I always thought it was one of the many purposes of a student union, to promote debate and discussion of global issues relevant to students.

As a student, I was disgusted at how readily other students were to dictate to me which issues were relevant to me. Promoting debate, though? No, students can do that themselves, surely the purpose of a student Union is to represent and cater for the interests of students. Dividing, or taking up a stance on which the student community is quite strongly divided is a bit of a shady move.

I wonder how many physicists attend anti-nuclear marches or how many economists end up at these anti-capitalism things? Just because Leftsoc, SD students and their activist cohorts have a bee in their bonnet about something does not lead to them representing everyone! Misplaced pride over the use of the union seems inappropriately petty. The purpose of the union ought be a ubiquotus tool for students, eh? Like a giant stationary cupboard for students, as long as they're not going too wild with it, hooray.


Having said that

Sabbs, union representatives and such attending stuff doesn't mean they're acting in a 'The Union Supports this!' capacity. I'm quite a mature enough chappie to hazard a guess at distinguishing betweens someone's official view and their personal view. An MP at a protest doesn't mean the House stands with 'em.

[Jono]

As a student, I was disgusted at how readily other students were to dictate to me which issues were relevant to me. Promoting debate, though? No, students can do that themselves, surely the purpose of a student Union is to represent and cater for the interests of students. Dividing, or taking up a stance on which the student community is quite strongly divided is a bit of a shady move.

I wonder how many physicists attend anti-nuclear marches or how many economists end up at these anti-capitalism things? Just because Leftsoc, SD students and their activist cohorts have a bee in their bonnet about something does not lead to them representing everyone! Misplaced pride over the use of the union seems inappropriately petty. The purpose of the union ought be a ubiquotus tool for students, eh? Like a giant stationary cupboard for students, as long as they're not going too wild with it, hooray.

I see what you're saying about dictating what counts as relevant debate. It ties into the old truism: "If you're under 30 and conservative you have no heart, if you're over 30 and liberal you have no brain." In other words, you're not a properly "political" student unless you support a left wing cause. If anything the reverse is true. Statistically, British Universities are (and, largely, always have been) predominantly politically conservative (little c).

However, I don't think it's fair to pillory LeftSoc or SD for holding political activism close to their heart. They're certainly not the only ones, and it isn't exclusively, or even largely the left-wing societies who do it! Conservative society are a pretty vocal force, albeit more through mainstream activism. JSoc's past vocal support of the state of Israel is well documented (or would be, if I hadn't lost all the minutes when my laptop crashed last month). The Union itself has a forum for this sort of debate in the UDS. Nobody expects ConSoc to denounce Thatcher. Nobody expects Leftsoc to not demonize her.

I think the problem comes when non-political societies get hijacked and roped into ultra vires (i.e. directly irrelevant to students) political causes in the name of solidarity. The other comes when societies and the union start adversarial relationships. But hey, I'm past all that now!

[

[RedCelt69]

the old truism: "If you're under 30 and conservative you have no heart, if you're over 30 and liberal you have no brain."

A truism is, by definition, true. That quote is not.

It was devised by old men to assuage their conscience at selling-out the ideals of their youth. In this particular instance, the old man was Churchill; “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

[ojk6]

I was a little bit perplexed as to why the Residence Admin here at Fife Park decided to agree to send out an email to all Fife Park students telling them about the "Nae Tae G20" thing...

[Senethro]

anyone remember when the liberty society used to say stuff?

[Duggeh]

They don't hold people in St Andrews station any more, they send them to Glenrothes, or possibly Kirkcaldy, can't recall exactly which

According to my sister who's in the specials. They do. Because all of the louts who get rounded up in Anstruther end up in St Andrews.

[__]

the 5 students who got arrested are on the bbc. apparently they chained themselves together to block the road.

[DACrowe]

Statistically, British Universities are (and, largely, always have been) predominantly politically conservative (little c).

That's an interesting claim. Might we see these statistics? Because I'm calling to mind a political map of the UK and noticing that the top three Universities all vote Liberal (big L). "University students are right wing" certainly isn't perceived wisdom down my way.

Funny, I always thought it was one of the many purposes of a student union, to promote debate and discussion of global issues relevant to students.

What? Really? No. The purpose of a Students' Union is to be a collective body which can act in a way which is beneficial to its members by exerting influence that individuals alone are not capable of. This might involve representation on formal university bodies, the provision of student services, collective bargaining e.g. for lower students rents, representation of the student body in local politics, the sending of delegates to national students unions with similar interests and political action where student interests are clearly involved (education funding, education policy etc). Students Unions aren't there to 'promote debate'. That's the job of debating societies. I realise one might be confused by the fact that two of the better known debating societies, Cambridge Union [Society] and the Oxford Union both have 'Union' in the name, but in fact neither of them are students' unions those are respectively CUSU and OUSU. You should draw a distinction in your mind between the 'Unions' which are historically private debating societies which acted in political capacities now and then and the students unions (in our case the SA, in the case of Glasgow the SRC etc) which act in a formal collective representative capacity within the framework of the university decision making process. The latter undermine their legitimacy when they campaign on issues which are not clearly the concern of all students as in doing so they risk alienating their members.

E.g. I am a member of the SA (like everyone else). I am also in favour of globalisation, because I believe it is tantamount to free trade and I believe free trade helps poor people and I like helping poor people particularly when it makes me better off into the bargain. This is debatable. What is not debatable is that the Students Association shouldn't have an official position on globalisation. Where the wider politics and the remit of the union cross over however, that's different. It's a reasonable position (and one I'd support, though it's no means beyond question) that the Union should see fit to reserve the right to choose who provides its services, whether this means actively supplying fair trade goods in its facilities, banning Nestle, boycotting such-and-such a country and so on. These are decisions presumably predicated upon wider political issues but would appear to fall within the realm of decisions to be made by the union. A more controversial 'trades union' question is whether the students union should be permitted to, or is even obliged to, 'show solidarity' with other unions. Some people think it should, I personally do not with the exception of coordinated activities with unions, such as those who represent university teaching and administrative staff, whose activities are obviously connected with student welfare.

I was a little bit perplexed as to why the Residence Admin here at Fife Park decided to agree to send out an email to all Fife Park students telling them about the "Nae Tae G20" thing...

If it's an e-mail list used to advertise other things then it's fine. If it's for internal messages only then he shouldn't be doing it, unless the G20 thing was supported by the SA, but then they probably shouldn't have been doing that.