Leader of the Labour party

[RedCelt69]

A vaguely-interesting Facebook poll: http://apps.facebook.com/opinionpolls/poll.php?pid=1274967481

My favourite would be Dianne. She's the only one (that I've seen) who was against the invasion of Iraq. On those grounds alone, she'd get my vote. I also like her... although she's seen as a wee bit too far to the left in the Blair/Brown party that they have at the moment. So, in all likelihood, unlikely to win.

Of the rest, my fave would be Ed Milliband. He, at least, has been critical of Labour's mistakes. It's just such a shame that he didn't express that publicly (or in parliament) sooner than now.

Politically, the next 5 years are going to be interesting. Will Cameron manage to take his party closer to the centrist-ground he claims to represent? Will the Lib Dems actually continue to be an independent political party that survives their sell-out to the right?* How will Labour place themselves as liberal reformers when the coalition claims to be just that? Muy interesante.


* Sorry, DACrowe, but as much as you want to paint a different picture, they've lost supporters. Additionally, previous coalitions have (apparently) not done the Liberals a very great service.

Edit: John McDonnell was also against the invasion of Iraq - but who the hell is John McDonnell?

[macgamer]

Dennis Skinner should stand:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gi ... 047&ref=ts

[RedCelt69]

Dennis Skinner should stand:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gi ... 047&ref=ts

I'm not sure if that is meant to be a parody. In this age of media-personality (and keeping in mind the hard time that Menzies Campbell had as Lib Dem leader) Dennis Skinner is, to say the very least, a bad candidate as Labour leader.

[DACrowe]

Why not do this as a poll? Politically I'd have to go with 'none of the above' (they're all objectionable for one reason or another). I think Ed Miliband's probably the best of a bad bunch but given he helped sabotage the coalition talks I'd have to assume the more ideologically-free Miliband is the best horse to bed on for those hoping for a Lib-Lab coalition in 2015. David Miliband for me; tarnished by New Labour* and apparently shit at his job ** he is nonetheless the most plausible of a bad bunch. If I had a horse in the race though, it would be called 'Anyone But Balls'.

*His voting record includes the standard set of awful: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/david_ ... th_shields
Voted very strongly for the Iraq war.
Voted very strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war.
Voted moderately against laws to stop climate change.
Voted very strongly for introducing foundation hospitals.
Voted very strongly for replacing Trident.
Voted very strongly for Labour's anti-terrorism laws.
Voted a mixture of for and against a transparent Parliament.
Voted strongly for introducing ID cards.
Voted strongly for introducing student top-up fees.
Voted strongly for allowing ministers to intervene in inquests.

** http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 88427.html
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andre ... _minister/

Politically, the next 5 years are going to be interesting. Will Cameron manage to take his party closer to the centrist-ground he claims to represent? Will the Lib Dems actually continue to be an independent political party that survives their sell-out to the right?*

...

* Sorry, DACrowe, but as much as you want to paint a different picture, they've lost supporters.

I accept this is the case and I'm not trying to paint a different picture, I would however (as well you know) object to the use of the phrase 'sold-out' as it's complete bollocks. Unless we 'sold out to the centralisers' back in 1999. When you consider making the choice between to pass your party's policies rather than not passing them 'selling out' you effectively cease to exist as a political party.

Actually the LibDem Deputy Leadership race is going to be marginally interesting as we might get to hear Tim Farron's explanation for his vote against the Equality Bill (which I discussed elsewhere).

[DACrowe]

1) Will Cameron manage to take his party closer to the centrist-ground he claims to represent?
2) Will the Lib Dems actually continue to be an independent political party that survives their [coalition with the Conservatives].
3) [W]ill Labour place themselves as liberal reformers when the coalition claims to be just that?

Edit: John McDonnell was also against the invasion of Iraq - but who the hell is John McDonnell?

1) No. They'll be swinging back to the right for the next election. They'll have to.
2) Yes. Though if electoral reform isn't passed we will be heavily damaged by our having... er... done the right thing.
3) No. They'll continue in much the same authoritarian-populist grove they've established under New Labour, though the economic policy is likely to take a leftwards swing.

John McDonnell ran against Brown when was being passed the leadership. Being too lazy to check wikipedia off the top of my head he's from a traditional trade unionist background and on the left of the party. (He's the poor man's John Cruddas, who I think has backed Ed Miliband). I know a lot of people who temporarily joined Labour to vote for him/against Brown. I'm sure the surge in membership the Labour party is enjoying has nothing to do with this and is totally different from the membership surge which tends to precede leadership elections.

[Jos Dad]

Voted very strongly.

Sorry to seem pedantic (actually, I'm not - it is what the Sinner is for ) but I am genuinely perplexed; how does one vote very strongly? Say "Aye" in a stentorian voice? Jump up and down saying "Me, me me"?

[RedCelt69]

Voted very strongly.

Sorry to seem pedantic (actually, I'm not - it is what the Sinner is for ) but I am genuinely perplexed; how does one vote very strongly? Say "Aye" in a stentorian voice? Jump up and down saying "Me, me me"?

It is a reference to the consistency (regularity) of their voicing whichever view is referenced.

[DACrowe]

Voted very strongly.

Sorry to seem pedantic (actually, I'm not - it is what the Sinner is for ) but I am genuinely perplexed; how does one vote very strongly? Say "Aye" in a stentorian voice? Jump up and down saying "Me, me me"?

TWFY scores points on particular areas of policy and gives MPs points for votes in support of the policy proposers and negative points for abstentions and votes in opposition. This can become quite strange when rival amendments are voted on for the same policy. David has the same scores any Labour MP who voted with the Labour whip over the last decade or so would have (which he did as an ambitious MP). They just happen to be really bad, in my opinion. Diane Abbot would have a different record, but I suspect the other candidates would all have more or less the same 'scores'.

Actually the LibDem Deputy Leadership race is going to be marginally interesting as we might get to hear Tim Farron's explanation for his vote against the Equality Bill (which I discussed elsewhere).

For those curious, here is Tim's explanation:

Hello all,
I’ll do a proper post on here soon – but i just want to scotch all this homophobia rubbish. I voted against two bits of the Equalities Act because I take a rather extreme liberal view on free speech – if I remember rightly I took the same stance on the issue as Peter Tatchell who is not, so far as I am aware, a homophobe! I just don’t think that we should force religious groups to amend their rules to suit everyone else and I also don’t think that offence should be grounds for restriction. That’s why, for instance, I also voted for the abolition of the blasphemy laws. I’ve had a go at they work for you at my designation on this issue which is appallingly misleading but they won’t change it. As Andy suggests, I would of course have supported equal age of consent and civil partnerships had I been in the House at the time. So there you are. I’m off knocking on doors now (defered council elections in Kendal today).

Cheers
Tim

[macgamer]

I think Ed Miliband's probably the best of a bad bunch.

And some of the bunch are pretty bad.

[RedCelt69]

And some of the bunch are pretty bad.

[Al]

Has some Sinner Law been passed that requires macgamer to 'illuminate' each post he makes with a pointless image?

[RedCelt69]

Has some Sinner Law been passed that requires macgamer to 'illuminate' each post he makes with a pointless image?

It seems to be a new policy, whereby a silly image is reproduced from someone's past - in order to (kinda) emphasise a strange point. So... I thought I'd try that approach myself.



I'm not sure what the problem is with a photo of someone in a pretend beach-boat... but given the choice, I'd leave my kids in the company of David Miliband rather than Jospeh Ratzinger.

[macgamer]

Has some Sinner Law been passed that requires macgamer to 'illuminate' each post he makes with a pointless image?

I'd find it extremely difficult to illuminate each and every post in that manner. It is just that the internet is plentiful resource for photographs of Labour Party apparatchiks in situations that may sometimes illustrate my point. Beside, as RedCelt69 teaches, one should not hate people, so these pictures are a harmless outlet for my opposition to their ideology whilst simultaneously providing me, at least, with a smidgen of amusement.

Alternatively someone could start producing the Tory, or should I say 'ConDem' pictures. Or get bitter as RedCelt69 has done.

[RedCelt69]

Beside, as RedCelt69 teaches, one should not hate people, so these pictures are a harmless outlet for my opposition to their ideology

The pictures I posted were a harmless outlet to my opposition to Ratzinger's (and your's) policy. You can't resent someone for doing exactly the same as you. You, especially, can't do that. Should I quote Matthew 7 again?

Or get bitter as RedCelt69 has done.

Me, bitter? I was smiling when I posted it. It amused me. You've just said that posting pictures for a bit of amusement was a good thing. No bitterness, macgamer.

[macgamer]

If I had a horse in the race though, it would be called 'Anyone But Balls'.

Too late Balls has 33 nominations:
http://www2.labour.org.uk/leadership-ca ... 3/Ed_Balls

[macgamer]

The pictures I posted were a harmless outlet to my opposition to Ratzinger's (and your's) policy. You can't resent someone for doing exactly the same as you. You, especially, can't do that. Should I quote Matthew 7 again?

No objection. Provided you don't make further calumnies against the Pope. I would have objections to those.

[RedCelt69]

I wasn't bitter when I used the internet as a "plentiful resource for photographs" (macgamer) to find the young Ratzinger in rather-questionable situations as a youngster.

I was, however, bitter when I compiled this montage of Ratzinger appearing from the rim of a condom surrounded by AIDS-ravaged African children.

No objection. Provided you don't make further calumnies against the Pope. I would have objections to those.

<snorkle>

Edit: I was making my reply when you made your reply. I'm curious, though... in what way was it a calumny to post pictures of the Pope as a youth? I wouldn't think it a calumny if you posted photos of me as a youngster. Then again, I wasn't a member of Hitler Youth - and I've never saluted Hitler, so... situations & circumstances, I guess.

[DACrowe]

I'm not sure what the problem is with a photo of someone in a pretend beach-boat... but given the choice, I'd leave my kids in the company of David Miliband rather than Jospeh Ratzinger.

Oddity of oddities; a young Joseph Ratzinger looks... kinda like David Miliband.

In an odd instance of cross-over here's Ed Balls dressed as a Nazi:

If I had a horse in the race though, it would be called 'Anyone But Balls'.

Too late Balls has 33 nominations:
http://www2.labour.org.uk/leadership-ca ... 3/Ed_Balls

I'm not concerned. I was assuming he might have spent years preparing to take over from Brown and had done a lot of behind-the-scences intriguing with the parliamentary party, the NEC and the Unions. The fact it's been so hard for him even to get nominated and most of the Brownites have gone with Ed Miliband suggests he hasn't and his campaign are not going to get much further than the first ballot. To me, at least. He was never going to win the members' votes as stupid people are in a minority in the Labour party.

It's an interesting game of 'who?' in the list of those who have nominated them. As might have become clear over the election thread I follow British politics fairly closely and I can only recognise about 6 of his nominees*, and one of those is his wife. I suspect most are 2005 or even 2010 intake backbenches.

*(Yvette Cooper, Tom Watson, Geoffrey Robinson, Andrew Smith (just 'cause he's Oxford East), Iain Wright ('cause he's Mandy's replacement) and John Robertson (Glasgow NE)).

[ojk6]

Nothing like a bit of photoshopping to make a 'first blessing' look like something more sinister.

[RedCelt69]

Nothing like a bit of photoshopping to make a 'first blessing' look like something more sinister.

Hey, that's cool. And the Hitler Youth photo... he was an extra on Mel Brooks' The Producers, right?