Reloaded - But what does it all mean?

[Westley]

The Matrix has always intended to be a trilogy. It has always intended to be a philosophical “questions of perception of life, existence and everything”. The Wachowski Bros (directors and producers) always intended to use there religious and technological themes to portray life, existence and everything.

Personally I think there doing a pretty good job!

It is the classic tale of Good vs. Evil. Humans vs. Machines. Neo vs. Smith(s).

Here’s how it breaksdown (Matrix 1) Neo realises theirs something more, incomprehensible, but more to life. With the help of Morpheus and Trinity he is shown, introduced to the Truth. By the end of the film the important point isn’t that he dies and is “self-resurrected” but, that he realises the incomprehensible Truth is real. That he doesn’t need to conform to the ways of the world around himself. He dies to his old way of thinking and is born to realisation.

Reloaded leaves off from Neos revelation of non conformity to the way of the machines (evil).
The battle of Smith(s) vs. Neo.
Smith as we see in film 2 has been “set free” by Neo. Occurring when Smith sees Neo doing the impossible (in Smiths eyes). Seeing this Smith now believes in the same “faith” that Morpheus has. But theirs a problem. Smith is inherently evil, he knows the right path – led to it by Neo – but doesn’t want to go down it. So he fights Neo, he spreads his influence on others (“Me, Me 2” line). Others fight Neo also. I believe Smith vs. Neo is the most important theme of Reloaded. The other machine programs separately personify Lust, Envy and a hunger for Power. (again evils)

Unfortunately I don’t have it all figured out (perhaps I should go for a third time)
The Architect – is he the devil (a lot of what he said seemed to be “half truths” and he’s the creator of the conforms of the world (sorry Matrix) – the evil). Morpheus, no doubt a true believer, def a bit mad – a John the Baptist like character – hmm not sure. Zion – a heavenly realm if the Matrix is the world and the machine world is in essence hell. – again jury is still out!
Then theirs Trinity, Logos, Nebuchadnezzar, Zion – the list goes on and on – all religious terms, names.

One things for sure. It’s a battle between Good and Evil, where we, (Smiths) find/know the path were meant to take, but don’t follow it because it’s ALL ABOUT CHOICE. We choose to fight Neo’s truth as we want to live in blissful ignorance (the juicy streak of film 1) (Me, Me, Me (Smith just before first fight with Neo (film 2))). We are contributing to the destruction of Zion. Revolutions I suspect will be about Smith giving in to Neo.

Sorry did I say “we” – I meant “Smith”.

Comments?...............

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Doesn't Reloaded teach us that we've already made our decisions and that our path is already choosen and that choice is really just an illusion?

Also, I hardly think the Machines can be classes as evil - especially if we watch the Animatrix.

[Westley]

[s]Prophet Tenebrae wrote on 01:55, 23rd May 2003:
Doesn't Reloaded teach us that we've already made our decisions and that our path is already choosen and that choice is really just an illusion?

Predestination does crop up an annoying amount of times however Smith made his choice and most importantly Neo was left to choose what door to go through. What happened with the oracle I beleive was that paraphrased she said Youve already made your choice - now your here to understand it.
Neo choose.


Also, I hardly think the Machines can be classes as evil - especially if we watch the Animatrix.


Im not even going to humour the Animatrix!

[Sabre13]

Th matrix wasn't originally designed as a trilogy, it was going to be in two parts but they decided at a later date to make it a trilogy and put the second film in as a sort of link between the two films, think of it like a computer game - its not a sequel, its an addon.

[Pussycat]

I personally just thought that rather than being evil, Smith had simply gone ever so slightly mad after resigning himself to the fact he could never escape control.

I agree with the machines not being evil also. They do what they do to survive as would the humans in the same position. Also, is the Architect really evil? I didn't think so.

And Neo cannot simply be classed as the good guy by this reasoning as he is kind of half-human half-machine, hence why he is the One.

Persephone did indeed portray lust and envy as her name would suggest, not because she is necessarily evil though. Zion also is what the name suggests: an idealized, harmonious community, a utopia.

I liked the predestination thing in it, it was nicely explained to avoid too many headaches.

With all films, different people will read different things from it but if you're looking for a true good vs evil film I'd stick to those like LOTR. The Matrix has far too many shades of gray to be completely explained in this way alone.

(I also thought Morpheus was way better in the first film, this time around he was kinda wacko).

[Westley]

[s]Sabre13 wrote on 02:27, 23rd May 2003:
Th matrix wasn't originally designed as a trilogy, it was going to be in two parts but they decided at a later date to make it a trilogy and put the second film in as a sort of link between the two films, think of it like a computer game - its not a sequel, its an addon.


An article in Empire (pos not the most reliable of sources but it cant be that bad) seemed certain that the Matrix was always intended to be at least lets say a series. - In fact I dont think were disagreeing there. What I mean is Reloaded/Revilutions wasn't just a "Oh lets make more money from the Matrix" It was intended - predestined!

[Westley]

[s]Pussycat wrote on 02:44, 23rd May 2003:
I personally just thought that rather than being evil, Smith had simply gone ever so slightly mad after resigning himself to the fact he could never escape control.

I agree with the machines not being evil also. They do what they do to survive as would the humans in the same position. Also, is the Architect really evil? I didn't think so.

And Neo cannot simply be classed as the good guy by this reasoning as he is kind of half-human half-machine, hence why he is the One.



In regards to Smith I agree. He didnt beleive he could gain control. He was still mastered by the conforms of the Matrix (if we are to assume the matrix is inherently evil) then Smith not beleiving he can gain FULL control separating himself from the matrix leaves him a slave to the matrix.

Sorry for the ambiguity I never meant the machines themself were evil just that they represented evil. The will to survive I agree is not in itself bad however I have little sympathy on the sides of the machines!

Neo may be half machine however he is NOW independant of that machine and while in the matrix does not use the Matrix for personal gain. eg escapism, a nice steak.

Lastly the architect - I dont know, Im still thinking about that one......suggestions

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Sure the Wachoski brother say it was going to be a trilogy all along but Reloaded seemed a bit of a hamfisted effort for that - which I suppose could fit in with the idea it was supposed to be 2 parts and I think that the trailer for Revolutions looks great.

I think the predestination thing was one of the aspects they covered in a superficial and pretentious way, so that initially it sounds/ looks clever but under closer scrutiny it falls to pieces.

Is the Matrix evil? Evil is intention and the Matrix - as far as we know, although obviously random plot twists could change this at any moment - as a mere object has no intention. The Matrix is a system of control but without that control would humanity even exist? Better 1 day as a slave to the poorest master, than an eternity of not existing.

[Westley]

[s]Prophet Tenebrae wrote on 03:29, 23rd May 2003:


I think the predestination thing was one of the aspects they covered in a superficial and pretentious way, so that initially it sounds/ looks clever but under closer scrutiny it falls to pieces.

Is the Matrix evil? Evil is intention and the Matrix - as far as we know, although obviously random plot twists could change this at any moment - as a mere object has no intention. The Matrix is a system of control but without that control would humanity even exist? Better 1 day as a slave to the poorest master, than an eternity of not existing.

Someone far more elequent than I.
Morpheus:- "That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage, born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch. A prison for your mind.... Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this there is no turning back. You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes... Remember, all I'm offering is the truth, nothing more"

The Matrix itself is inherantly not evil but the control that it facilitates is there to keep people from the truth. Just "smoke and mirrors". Therefore it is the facilitator, tool used to blind people.

[teamonkey]

The first matrix was supposed to be a utopia, but people wouldn't accept it. They'd rather be fighting against a great evil keeping them prisoner. Add 1337 hax0ring skillz and super powers, and that would be their idea of utopia. See where I'm going with this?

[Westley]

[s]teamonkey wrote on 09:46, 23rd May 2003:
The first matrix was supposed to be a utopia, but people wouldn't accept it. They'd rather be fighting against a great evil keeping them prisoner. Add 1337 hax0ring skillz and super powers, and that would be their idea of utopia. See where I'm going with this?


good point. Say we lived in a perfect world where everyone had equal power, resources, whatever. We wouldnt accept it would we????????. As Smith says "Me,Me,Me". Humans by nature desire power, recognition above others, popularity, accumulation of material things, - they need to feel needed by others - I know I do, I shouldnt but i do.
This perfect benign utopia is doomed to failure if the variables inside it (humans) desire what it cannot provide. In essance we Choose to do what is "bad" for us, to live outside perfection. We/I follow Me,Me,Me attitude - inequality!

But something is happening in the matrix, Morpheus, Trinity, Neo...... all took the red pill. Escaped from the matrix in search of something more, the truth not just the easy to accept "unreality"

Just a thought

[Pussycat]

[s]Westley wrote on 03:02, 23rd May 2003:
Sorry for the ambiguity I never meant the machines themself were evil just that they represented evil. The will to survive I agree is not in itself bad however I have little sympathy on the sides of the machines!

"Machines need us, we need machines" was even pointed out in the film, therefore no side is evil but you still have to pick a side.

Lastly the architect - I dont know, Im still thinking about that one......suggestions

He designed the matrix as was his job. He did his job.

[s]Prophet Tenebrae wrote on 03:29, 23rd May 2003:
Sure the Wachoski brother say it was going to be a trilogy all along

Indeed it was but no one else ever saw the story.

I think the predestination thing was one of the aspects they covered in a superficial and pretentious way, so that initially it sounds/ looks clever but under closer scrutiny it falls to pieces.

How so? To me it seemed extremely straightforward. Choices are already made, you just have to understand them. Nice and simple.

I am told however that to fully get the film you have to see it twice (handy when it comes to the box office taking - speaking of which Keanu was a clever bunny wasn't he). As a middle film I expect it will be better after the third has been released. Just as TTT will be waaay better when ROTK comes out.

Final point, I can't believe Harry Knowles the reviewer himself didn't get the ending. But after reading his X2 review he seems quite the idiot anyway.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

How so? To me it seemed extremely straightforward. Choices are already made, you just have to understand them. Nice and simple.

But that doesn't actually mean anything, it's just a "clever" way of reconciling choice and desting - two irreconcilable ideas.

[teamonkey]

Not so. Your path is unalterable, but it's unalterable because you've already chosen what you do at some point in the future.

Also note that the Matrix cannot predict the future. If everything is known truly accurately at the start, AND how it will progress throughout time, then the future can be determined. The trouble is that when you introduce some unpredictable parameter (choice) in the system then things go tits up, and predicting the future is very much like predicting the weather. The Matrix is basing its future events on the past versions of the Matrix, and on estimations of the future.

[Pussycat]

[s]teamonkey wrote on 16:43, 23rd May 2003:
Not so. Your path is unalterable, but it's unalterable because you've already chosen what you do at some point in the future.

That's what I thought it was getting at, hence my liking of it.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

But do you really make the choice - or is it made for you?

[Pussycat]

That's for you to decide....or is it?