Where are the Sabs?

[Alex Muir]

I emailed Ben Spiers on Saturday of last week (8 days ago) with some suggestions for the Union. I also posted the suggestions on the Sinner for anyone to add to ( http://www.thesinner.co.uk/messageboard ... hread=5855 ). As of yet, I have had no acknowledgement from anyone at the Union, not even a 'thanks, we'll look into it'.

I looked at the Union's messageboard today and there are unregistered users' messages (which means someone has been approving them) but they don't even bother answering the questions which people are asking.

Quote from the board: Here's your opportunity to tell us what you think of what we're doing on your behalf.

I told you what I think you are doing, you didn't listen or even bother replying.

Edited: Toned it down a little!

[Rex Mundi]

To be honest, it isn't worth your bother Alex. The union is run by people who want to break into politics. They don't care about the important things like running the union, just the stupid things that will get them noticed like demonstrations and telling the saint what the university is doing wrong.

Call me cynical, but the only reason anyone will take a years sebattical is if they get something in return. Usually it's a leg up the career ladder.

[Thackary]

Wrong wrong wrong.

The sabs stand for election because they believe they can make a difference.
It is due to the red tape that seems to envelope the union that they don't manage to make the changes that the union needs.

If you were to get involved yourself with the runnings of the union, perhaps you would see what a difficult task they have.

[Rrrr]

Yeah, but to be fair some of the suggestions are incredibly simple and would make an actual difference, like one people would actually care about.
The cordons for bop queues are a simple way to slightly improve a night, i know all the jumping has pissed me off. i doubt fire regulations would go against a rope barrier like 3 metres long.
the visitor sign in explanation sign would cost all of what £5 it could be done with a sheet of A4 a printer and laminater, you can't tell me the union doesn't have those things.
Make wee changes! we want more of them, you can achieve more of them, and you'll be the guy that did x, y AND z

[hr]"If you see a seven foot goose with trainers and a shotgun, avoid it!"

[Tom Plant]

Dear Rex Mundi,

Two years after my sabbatical post, my plans for world domination and cult celebrity have come to fruition - as an English teacher at a low-level school in the Japanese countryside. Have no fear, though, when I return I'll be straight on that New Labour career ladder.

Really, I ran for election back then because I was pissed off with the raw deal both the university and the government often give students. That's why I ran for VP(R), because frankly, Union business (Bops and so on) were only of interest to me insofar as they funded representational concerns - another reason why I didn't want to run for President.

So, while I agree that some people run (particularly for President, a position I tried to have abolished, though not because of the President at the time, I hasten to add) with political intentions, please think twice before tarring everyone with the same brush in such a sneering tone.

As Thackary rightly says - if you want to change things, stand for office yourself. You may not find it as easy as you think.

[docomm]

Alex- it's me who authorises posts from unregistered users, and it's me who's making that sign right this very minute!
I know Ben's read your e-mail, and has been thinking about the points you've brought up in it - don't know any more than that tho'.
So we have been reading the thread - and considering the points raised.
If anyone else would like to contribute to this thread then feel free (not this one- but the one on the Union messageboard).
But obviously I don't care as I'm only in this position for the leg up it's giving me on the political ladder. Even though I have no sympathies for any mainland party... of course.

[Cain]

[s]docomm wrote on 10:12, 27th Oct 2003:
Even though I have no sympathies for any mainland party... of course.


are you another paid up member of the Guernsey Bank Account party then?

[hr]
I hold an element of surprise

[Rex Mundi]

Well in my perhaps jaded view, the red tape is there specifically because they don't want the Sebatticals interferring - so they make it as difficult as possible. The simple truth is that just because someone is elected to a position doesn't make them up to their job.

The sebatticals don't run the union, it's full time employees do. And If I were working full time there I too would make it as difficult as possible for the sebatticals, because in the end someone working full time wants to have their job next year, and the year after; while the sabs can mess up as much as they like and then go live the rest of their lives.

Sabs can indeed make a difference, but after all the time and effort put in it probably isn't worth it comapred to the other things you could do with that time. I'm sure there are very hard working people who really do what to change the world. So I'd like to apologise for saying all sabs are just in it for self interest, but I do honestly think most are; purely because thats the way the system works. It encourages people to use it as a stepping stone on to other things (and even thats not a terrible thing, some of those who use it may well want to make a difference furthur along the system).

So in short, I am sorry for sneering at all the sabs collectively, but I still believe most sabs are in it for the wrong reasons.

(edited to correct mistake)

[mossop]

[s]Rex Mundi wrote on 19:53, 27th Oct 2003:
Sebatticals interferring....The sebatticals...sebatticals....comapred....thats the way the system works....furthur
(edited to correct mistake)


Missed a few

[hr]
http://www.geocities.com/stauwfc

[Pilmour Boy]

Actually, I'd disagree with you on a few points.

1) Sabs are there to provide a figurehead to student governance. This is pretty much a full time job.
2) Unlike full time staff, sabs are by their very definition replaceable. This leads onto the purpose of manifestos. Beware of any sab who just says that they want to get in there to carry on as has been done before. If that's the case, there's no point having them.
3) I'm too tired to think of a third point at the moment.

[Intolerant Bastard]

People criticise 'the Union' when it effects changes and makes decisions slowly. They also criticise it when it is seen to waste money and/or act rashly. The uproar following the i-movie grant may serve as an example.

[Mr Comedy]

Note that I have replied, as a Union representative, as all the concerns you raise are Ents stuff.

[Intolerant Bastard]

[s]docomm wrote on 10:12, 27th Oct 2003:
Alex- it's me who authorises posts from unregistered users, and it's me who's making that sign right this very minute!
I know Ben's read your e-mail, and has been thinking about the points you've brought up in it - don't know any more than that tho'.
So we have been reading the thread - and considering the points raised.
If anyone else would like to contribute to this thread then feel free (not this one- but the one on the Union messageboard).
But obviously I don't care as I'm only in this position for the leg up it's giving me on the political ladder. Even though I have no sympathies for any mainland party... of course.



it's me who authorises posts from unregistered users - figures

But obviously I don't care as I'm only in this position for the leg up it's giving me on the political ladder - you weren't joking were you!

[Bonnie]

Andy? Are you feeling all right?

[hr]I love cheese.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Students are jaded toward the Union politics because they perceive that it is - and whether it is or not is an entirely different debate - governed by hacks and essentially affects very little meaningful change.

This isn't assisted by the fact that Sab position are only for a year, that people don't really pay attention and that people are invariably happier to sit around and moan as oppossed to actually bothering to run for anything.

[hr]Ah, I hate how nothing changes. Such a peaceful Earth should just collapse...

[someone]

Not speaking in my capacity as Association Chair(-elect):

I completely agree that sometimes the Union can seem closed. It's the reason I ran... because I said, "righto, I can do something about this." I hope that I am right, and that we don't get mired down in bureaucratic "reform" and semantics like committee name-changes (see Union webpage, SRC minutes 27 April.) While some of these changes are necessary, it's important that students show up and say "hold on a minute!" before we pass or fail policy motions in a vacuum.

Speaking now in my capacity as a Association officer (elect): *gown comes on*

Keep in mind that SRC and SSC meetings, boring though they sometimes may seem to the casual outsider, are open to any member of the Association (every student and member of staff, save those who choose to withdraw.) As I will be the Chair in the autumn, I can say with great certainty and authority that any member of the Association who joins us at a meeting will be heard and will be treated with respect. I am sure any of the officers or sabs, incoming or outgoing, would agree.... although I do not speak for them.

Next year, I will be publicizing the times and locations of SRC and SSC meetings here on the Sinner. If you want to pop along, it is your right and I encourage everyone to exercise it.

Speaking as a person, and not an officer-elect, again:

In my opinion, the Union doesn't do anything because the insular culture of the building doesn't necessarily promote student involvement--- no falt of the hacks, bu it does take awhile to get used to procedure so, as a consequence, your average student can't just "dive in" and have a ball with Union politics.

While some people blame the sabs, it is almost certainly not their fault--- the Sabs are usually so busy (particularly the DoS) that they don't have free time to address these problems. The other elected officials, though, have plenty of time, and if you go to meetings, that's the perfect time to tell them what you have to say--- and they have no choice but to listen. The sabs are there, too.

As a final suggestion--- remember, most people (self included) have re-election campaigns to worry about. I advise you to use that to your advantage.

[Marco Biagi]

As a final suggestion--- remember, most people (self included) have re-election campaigns to worry about.

Watch out - that's like declaring a candidacy in advance. You might find yourself disqualified nine months before the election. Remember how zealous they are these days.

[penfold]

Not speaking in my capacity as Association Chair(-elect):

That'll be first preston!

[Bonnie]

[s]someone wrote on 17:43, 4th Jun 2004:
...I completely agree that sometimes the Union can seem closed...
In my opinion, the Union doesn't do anything because the insular culture of the building doesn't necessarily promote student involvement...



You might be the most ignorant twat I have met in a while.
With the literally thousands of students involved in all the aspects of the Students' Association, you must have your head stuck in the sand. You would be hardpressed to find even one student (yes, even the one who isn't a member) who doesn't benefit from the Students' Association. (Marco does still uses the DDR machine as a guest and I say that still counts.)
I would ask you to maybe not be so stupid and get invovled yourself... but you already know my feelings on that subject.
So to recap, apparently everyone who is involved at all in societies, ents, music, theatre, charities, town/gown relations, environment and ethics projects, debates, nightline or student volunteer services or SupNet (supported by the Union through funding, resources, and/or advertising/recruitment help), the arts (including film-making projects), protests/ campaigns which affect students (top-up fees is one example), fifty student representatives, etc must feel like their part of some special insular group. If you consider that group to be about every matriculated student, associate members, and their guests (apart from the times the Union is open to the public as temporary members), yeah I guess it is closed.

Boy, where do they breed chairs? It's getting to be a tradition now.

[Intolerant Bastard]

Bonnie, I am registered user 'Intolerant Bastard'. Not sure who the unregistered imposter is!