The Cellar Bar wrote:You are very probably a man of very many talents - and the "journey" consists of fulfilling them and learning their place in your life and how they might contribute to the lives of others around you. It's a journey we all make one way or the other and it isn't exactly the easiest process known to Mankind.
Thank-you.
The Cellar Bar wrote:All I have been saying is that beyond this particular, and admittedly immensely troubling part of it for you, there is plenty in your Faith which ought to sustain you and when necessary guide you when you need guidance.
[...]
There's no reason why Catholicism shouldn't remain a part of your life. Like I said, read the texts - NOT the interpretations from a particular agenda - and simply grow into who you are.
However, you seem to be advocating a dissent from Catholicism and most orthodox Christology held by the churches in common. If I became convinced by what you have been advocating, I could no longer in conscience remain Christian / Catholic.
The Cellar Bar wrote:Which is why I wasn't advocating any partcular experiment or accent on your sexuality to the extent of embarking on a mission of relationships. In fact, I had hoped that I made it clear that I didn't recommentd introducing any further confusion in your life right now. Just as your friend equally recommended not doing anything of the kind.That was why I pointed out that others, who are among other things, "gay" or "homosexual", don't find that it puts any particular crimp in what they are capable of achieving as human beings. It doesn't cloud their judgement,, doesn't prevent them from using those other talents they have been born with or honed. Not as the member of any particular "group" of human beings. But just through being an actual human being.
I couldn't agree more with that last sentence of yours. It probably is very much compatible with 'RedCelt69 Humanism'. I've made progress, but further development cannot be rushed. So, in some ways perhaps my starting this thread was a mistake. Perhaps I misjudged how much progress I had made and I wasn't ready to give a full defence and account of myself before RedCelt69 in particular...
The Cellar Bar wrote:Personal relationships are an element of who we are. The Adam and Eve quote we both referred to encompasses that. As I said, I didn't and don't read any implication in it that its primary function is to further the species. It's a far broader, more profound understanding of what a relationship consists of as being essentially a "partner" in life who can hold you up when necessary when a person finds that they can't stand up to it itself. That represents pretty much any relationship and there are probably plenty of relationships which are non-sexual in nature. They are called "friendships" and they can go far further than simply "doing lunch" or going for a pint. It's why "straight" wedding vows talk of "in sickness and in health", for "richer and poorer" - all the elements of what might assault all of us at one time or another. Rather than one single specific item that probably doesn't take up much more than 3 or 4 or 5% of the average human being's life.
I agree with most of what you have written. I particularly liked this,
'who can hold you up when necessary when a person finds that they can't stand up to it itself.' Thinking about the future in the single life can be a bit daunting. However, what I bear in mind is the fact from my volunteering visiting the housebound and care homes is most of us will be alone towards the end even if we have been married. Extended family and friends are just as important as one's spouse.
I'm not going to deny myself close friendships that are needed to sustain anyone's life and the beneficial effect of helping friends in need has for oneself.
I find your approach, Cellar Bar, in this discussion far more persuasive than RedCelt69. Unless you both have teamed up to be 'good cop - bad cop'?
Debating with RedCelt69 has not brought out the best in me and I see that I've failed in necessary charity. I do not enjoy hurting people. I've not been convinced that homosexual sex is compatible with my conscience and I find it unlikely that I've convinced anyone else here!
Many here will still be under the impression that I'm deliberating 'hurting myself' or making myself unhappy through my moral convictions. The turmoil of last year was not about moral convictions but about accepting my SSA and integrating into my sense of 'self'. Last year I did hurt myself psychologically and nearly physically too. Now, I want to stay happy and most importantly,
live.
Perhaps if I had killed myself last year that would have been a vindication for some people here.
"Progress should mean that we are always changing the world to fit the vision, instead we are always changing the vision."
- G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1908