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by **exnihilo** on Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:45 pm

The province of Northern Ireland is NOT ruled by the government of Great Britain. The province of Northern Ireland is a constituent part of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The official name of our country, and the clue really is there in the name.

There was a time, remember, when we were The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Great Britain also once existed as a political unit. And that consisted of Scotland and England with Wales (Wales having been largely subsumed by England in a yet earlier Act of Union).

As for being British, that could be argued to be a purely geographic term as the islands of Great Britain, Ireland, and a few hundred others comprise the British Isles, and all of THAT is based on our common British (and a dozen variant spellings / formations) heritage.

In current usage, however, it does very firmly cover the people of Northern Ireland who may very well consider themselves ethnically (and I use that term very advisedly) Irish, but nationally British. Rather as I am Scottish and British, and as an American might also consider himself a Virginian - and so on.

Simple really.

[hr][i]"Most people are not as stupid as they look; I mean, how could they be?"[i]

by **The Bigot's Bigot** on Wed Dec 17, 2003 11:42 am

The people of Ireland have been proven to be ethnically indentical to those of the rest of the UK and much of North Western Europe. The notion of a Celtic nation is a myth.

by **exnihilo** on Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:26 pm

Are you blind to the bits in brackets??? I used ethnically advisedly. Perhaps a better word might have been culturally.

by **Lenana** on Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:57 pm

[s]exnihilo wrote on 12:26, 17th Dec 2003:
a better word might have been culturally.

Nope, culturally is not a better word.

by **exnihilo** on Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:58 pm

Alright, how about "in terms of their outlook" or "just because they want to" they might describe themselves as Irish, while in terms of nation states, they are still British. Better? Or shall we continue to pretend we didn't know what I meant in the first place in order to prove some utterly opaque point of our own?

by **Lenana** on Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:17 pm

I agree that we're more alike Britain than the Republic. But that may be 'cause I'm from Belfast.

My arguments...
We have same type of government, which has much wider implicaions in terms of housing policies, education, benefits etc.
We have same TV and radio (ie BBC, ITV, CH4, 5) which is important in that we are subjected to all things """"British"""" (The Proms, cricket, Wimbledon, Prime Minister's Question Time, national news on all channels, Royal Ceremonies...)

I'd go on but I've spent enough time already avoiding a certain essay...

by **The Bigot's Bigot** on Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:08 pm

Regardless of anything to do with 'outlook' or 'culture', the majority people of NI want to retain the British link (be that being 'ruled by' the 'British' or being 'British') If we are considered odd or unworthy of wanting to retain this link then so be it. A Unionist club could cater for a valid political view.

by **exnihilo** on Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:26 pm

I think I was on your side a few posts ago. I agree. By saying that people could retain their Irish outlook and still be British, I thought I was supporting you. Obviously I either write in a very unclear manner, or everyone subsequently has trouble reading with understanding.

by **Nick Mitchell** on Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:09 pm

Many of us, like myself, regard ourselves as Northern Irish, Irish AND British, not necessarily in that order. Everyone's identity has a combination of aspects (eg, Scouse + Indian + English + British + European). Why get hung up on one?

by **exnihilo** on Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:27 pm

Precisely!

by **The Bigot's Bigot** on Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:23 pm

Trouble was that I read the post while in work and only had a short time to reply! Sorry for any misunderstanding.

by **OWC / Ulster / Queens?** on Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:27 am

Its entirely up to every individual citizen of Northern Ireland to come to their own conclusions over whether they prefer to be termed 'British', 'Irish' or indeed 'Northern Irish' not anyone else. Nevertheless, the fact remains the majority of people in my country wish to remain British and they will continue to do so for a very very very long time. So I guess other 'British' people will have to put up with us for a while yet. Sorry.

by **exnihilo** on Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:32 am

Now I really am lost. I'm 99% sure that I said that already, but suddenly everyone seems to be assuming I said the opposite and arguing with me. Sigh.

by **Buzzboy** on Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:36 am

[s]Unregisted User OWC / Ulster / Queens? wrote on 22:44, 17th Dec 2003:
Its entirely up to every individual citizen of Northern Ireland to come to their own conclusions over whether they prefer to be termed 'British', 'Irish' or indeed 'Northern Irish' not anyone else. Nevertheless, the fact remains the majority of people in my country wish to remain British and they will continue to do so for a very very very long time. So I guess other 'British' people will have to put up with us for a while yet. Sorry.

Nope, Tony will just kick you out of the Union when he's ready to.

[hr]
On the Seventh Day God said to Adam:

"Can I leave it with you?"

by **Full Header** on Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:34 pm

Ok, don't go bonkers at me if I say something that's already been blatantly ripped to death but do you not find yourself saying your irish because no one understands otherwise? I mean I've tried to explain that technically i'm not but my mates just end up looking completely bewildered so I just give up. Mind you, I feel a hell of a lot more irish here than I do at home, whereas when I'm at home I feel more British than anything else. Has anyone else noticed that or is it just me?

by **Nick Mitchell** on Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:02 pm

Nope, that's a fairly common experience for Northern Irish studying in GB, particularly if you're from a Unionist background. I found it too.

by **The Bigot's Bigot** on Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:23 pm

Sometimes i think of myself as a British Irishman. but yes, when someone says 'are you irish?' it is normally easier to just say yes.

by **Full Header** on Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:12 pm

Thank God I'm not the only one! I was beginning to feel a wee bit odd about the whole thing! Going back to Ulster tomorrow - whoo-hoo! I'll have to make it to the Beach Club this time or I think my mates will actually disown me! Have a good one guys! :-)

by **The Bigot's Bigot** on Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:42 pm

Beach club, is that the strip bar?

by **LeopardSkinQueen** on Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:47 pm

[s]The Bigot's Bigot wrote on 18:42, 20th Dec 2003:
Beach club, is that the strip bar?

No, its the place in the Odyssey.

Sounds like the tackiest place on earth that isn't a strip bar though.

[hr]
[s]"Just why Frodo was selling his beautiful hole was even more debatable than the price."

'Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'

[/s]

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