Seal culling in Canada

[LeopardSkinQueen]

Another topic that wasn't allowed to be posted unregistered, so I post it.

What are your views on this? Do you think it was morally wrong, or acceptable? If you think it was wrong, what factor(s) led you to this decision- the numbers involved, the influence of fashion reasons in the number to kill, or something else? Around 280,000 animals were killed in this cull.

Here's a few news stories about it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3618901.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/animalrights/ ... 76,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3627345.stm

[hr][s]Log Lady: I heard you speaking about Laura Palmer?
Dale Cooper: Yes?
Log Lady: One day my log will have something to say about this. My log saw something that night.
Dale Cooper: Really. What did it see?
Log Lady: Ask it.
[Cooper hesitates]
Log Lady: I thought so. (walks away)
[/s]

[sweetest_kiss]

[s]LeopardSkinQueen wrote on 12:22, 15th Apr 2004:
Another topic that wasn't allowed to be posted unregistered, so I post it.

What are your views on this? Do you think it was morally wrong, or acceptable? If you think it was wrong, what factor(s) led you to this decision- the numbers involved,


At first I thought this was refering to the unregistered posts not being posted!

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Although it's being carried out for mainly economic reasons, I don't think it's wrong.

This is the 9000th thread!

[surfingsimon]

the cull itself is not wrong, its the methods used.

clubbing any animal to death has no place in and country and the hypocrisy of it being allowed in Canada (always so concerned about the envionment and humanitarian issues) is rather unpleasant.

[tordenskjold]

From reading the articles, bearing in mind the usual bias one finds in these publications and from the organisations asked, it seems that the cull is not being carried out in the most humane manner possible. The reasoning behind the increase in the quota to be culled seems tenuous at best so I would have thought they would try to avoid this wort of controversy. To blame the seal population for the collapse in Cod stocks is a laughable attempt to justify the increase in culled animals which is probably due to economic rather than altruistic ecological concerns.

If we leave aside the problematic increase in culled animals and look at the methods it seems that they need far more control from a government body montoring the cull. Using rifles to cull these animals would, in my opinion, be perfectly acceptable, but the use of clubs etc is just barbaric. We have mastered the firearm why not use it? It lends itself to almost 100% humane culling if used in an appropriate manner. The methods that some of these 'hunters' are employing can probably do nothing more than cause panic and anxiety among the animals. The skinning alive of some animals (which I can imagine is true) is sickening and has no place in a culling programme. I would have thought that some laws were being broken here. The Wild Mammals (Protection) Act 1995 in the UK states: it is illegal to "cruelly kick, beat, stab, impale, burn, crush, drown any wild mammal." I can only assume they have an equivalent act in Canada.

On the other hand I can understand why 'observers' and 'protesters' are being kept away from the culling area. Altercations between these people and the people culling are probably best to be avoided as both sides will probably contain people who may cause trouble. As this is a government sanctioned breach of humane culling procedure I doubt they will be selling tickets to see the results. It is important in what can become a very charged issue for some to avoid hyperbole about ice floes 'running in blood' etc as this sort of language speaks more to the emotions than the senses.

In the end I think culling is fine, though the increase in numbers makes me suspicious. A humane way must be found to do so however. With an increase in numbers to be culled the seals may find themselves treated as a mass nuisance that can be destroyed in any way people see fit, especially with an increase in people taking part, this is wrong. A humane cull would be fine but from the information given this cull seems to be far from it.

[Sleigh]

You would think that bolt guns, like the ones used by vets to kill cattle during the F&M crisis, would have been more effective than clubs. Haven't we moved beyond the simple club to kill other things?

[Haunted]

bolt guns are heavy and probably not feesable for the conditions (i.e boats, ice, chasing) of this hunt. Clubs are used becuase they are simple and dont damage the skin which is used for fashion. To be honest i cant think of any alternative to the club, nothing else (i can think of at any rate) can kill it controlably without damaging the skin. It is bloody brutal though, if there is a better alternative i would hope that they use it

[Happy-Go-Lucky]

While I don't like the thought of seals being culled, I realise that in some situations, it is necessary and I shouldn't be hypocritical by complaining more about seals than other species I'm less fond of. I've always try not to judge or disapprove of people who eat or kill etc animals which aren't in this country, provided it's done no more cruelly than we would, (and it's not endangered).

However, I really do not see why the clubbing-to-death method is used. I mean, I cannot think of a single other animal species, or cull, or hunting technique etc which uses this unnecessarily brutal method. Why on earth is it used? It's not like the seals can make a fast getaway or fight back. They just sit there. If anything, they should be one of the easiest things to kill because they are so slow and unable to defend themselves. Why on earth can't they be simply shot in the head or given a lethal injection or something? It can't be because it's difficult to get the equipment there and carry it around. All you need is a little hand gun or something. And those huge clubbing devises hardly look convenient to lump around.

[David Bean]

Fraser: When I was a young scout, working on my ecology badge, I insinuated myself into a hunting party in order to catch a baby seal killer.

Ray: So what happened?

Fraser: Well, I was clubbed repeatedly, Ray.

- Due South

[hr]"And all the people rejoiced, and said: 'God save the King! Long live the King! ...May the King live forever!'" - Handel, 'Zadok the Priest'

[Manic23]

don't really agree with it at all, but that might be because I like animals and see it as cruel to beat the shit out of them with a blunted instrument, though I'm sure that there would be those out there who would disagree!

[Sleigh]

But we have to kill them or they'll die. (Copyright South Park)

[hr]When I read about the dangers of drinking, I gave up reading.

[Plette]

[s]Happy-Go-Lucky wrote on 15:38, 15th Apr 2004:
Why on earth is it used? It's not like the seals can make a fast getaway or fight back. They just sit there. If anything, they should be one of the easiest things to kill because they are so slow and unable to defend themselves.

I'm not sure where you heard this, but it's not true. Seals are extremely fast swimmers and although slower on land they don't 'just sit there.' They are not defenseless, either...few, if any, wild animals are defenseless.

Not sure how many people know about the state of the cod fisheries in Canada, but several years back fishing actually had to be stopped entirely on the East coast, putting hundreds of thousands of fishermen out of work. So although I'm not sure whether seals may be a real danger to fishing stocks, I do know that the government is very sensitive about risks to the stocks and this may explain some level of over-reaction.

I think the culling of animals is in some cases necessary, but I agree that it should be done in as humane a way as possible. Although I suppose one good blow to the head would kill a seal, and thus doesn't actually cause them any more pain than a gunshot to the head.

[tordenskjold]

I see the need for the pelts to be preserved, but this focus on the sale value of them surely undermines some of the supposedly 'ecological' reasons for the cull. If it is a cull and not a hunt then they should do it swiftly and humanely (not that you shouldn't be humane when hunting but you can take more consideration about secondary goods likes meat and pelts). As it is they should be concentrating on killing the number quickly and efficiently. As pointed out seals aren't completely inanimate while on land or for that matter defenceless. It would, therefore, be wrong to think that 'one quick blow to the head is possible'. Far more likely is having to beat it repeatedly. I've had to kill many shot animals by beating them round the head and that can be difficult enough a fully alive target would be even more difficult. As it is it seems that a more humane option is available but not being used, probably due to the cost and effort involved, thereby putting the welfare of the animals last which is wrong. We have mastered the firearm, why not use it?

[Chain Mailer]

I have to agree with the view in the article, it sounds like the seals are being used as scapegoats just because! I still dont understand why people think it is their right to decide when another species population is too big! Cod is becoming endangered because of over fishing by British and European fishermen but no one's going round killing the fishing community! How is culling in any way humane! It's ridiculous! The only reson to kill another creature is for food, (or self defence to a certian degree) that's it! Any other reason is just wanton killing by an egotistical species with a god complex


[hr]
Most definitly maybe

[The Black Vegetable]

NUKE THEM ALL

[I AM CANADIAN!!!!]

just to inform you all, this is pretty much strictly in Newfoundland. The majority of Canada kicks ass. each province is known for something special. BC for its pot, hippies and beauty, Alberta for the mountains and hicks, Saskatchiwan for the fact that you can see the entire province if you just stand up on a chair, cuz it's so flat, Manitoba.... again for being flat and boring? Ontario for it's City, the lakes, and humidity, and of course Quebec for its Francophones, maple syrup, and bad driving. oh let's not forget the North West Territories and the Yukon. but... on the other hand, not much up there except snow eh? and of course... Newfoundland and PEI, but i'm sure you get the idea from the articles.

I am obviously waay over steriotyping this all, just as Americans still believe that we live in Igloos. but it has some very slight truth. If you ever go to Canada, i suggest you go to British Columbia. you can't go wrong here.

http://homepage.mac.com/cbracken/canada/

http://home7.swipnet.se/~w-72891/Canadi ... es/ad.html

[Pender Native]

[s]Unregisted User I AM CANADIAN!!!! wrote on 02:51, 16th Apr 2004:
just to inform you all, this is pretty much strictly in Newfoundland. The majority of Canada kicks ass. each province is known for something special. BC for its pot, hippies and beauty, Alberta for the mountains and hicks, Saskatchiwan for the fact that you can see the entire province if you just stand up on a chair, cuz it's so flat, Manitoba.... again for being flat and boring? Ontario for it's City, the lakes, and humidity, and of course Quebec for its Francophones, maple syrup, and bad driving. oh let's not forget the North West Territories and the Yukon. but... on the other hand, not much up there except snow eh? and of course... Newfoundland and PEI, but i'm sure you get the idea from the articles.

I am obviously waay over steriotyping this all, just as Americans still believe that we live in Igloos. but it has some very slight truth. If you ever go to Canada, i suggest you go to British Columbia. you can't go wrong here.

http://homepage.mac.com/cbracken/canada/

http://home7.swipnet.se/~w-72891/Canadi ... es/ad.html


I'd have to agree there, I moved to Scotland from BC 11 years ago and still get homesick!

[dan greenberg]

I've always wondered ... How DO you get electricity into those igloos?

[Pender Native]

[s]dan greenberg wrote on 13:15, 16th Apr 2004:
I've always wondered ... How DO you get electricity into those igloos?


Batteries! Not that much of an exaggeration really, I have memories of week long powercuts in winter in BC!

[Plette]

[s]Chain Mailer wrote on 22:31, 15th Apr 2004:
I have to agree with the view in the article, it sounds like the seals are being used as scapegoats just because! I still dont understand why people think it is their right to decide when another species population is too big! Cod is becoming endangered because of over fishing by British and European fishermen but no one's going round killing the fishing community! How is culling in any way humane! It's ridiculous! The only reson to kill another creature is for food, (or self defence to a certian degree) that's it! Any other reason is just wanton killing by an egotistical species with a god complex


Just out of curiousity, how do you feel about pesticides being used to kill insects that would otherwise eat our crops? Humans certainly don't eat these insects, but we do kill them to prevent the damage they would do to our food.

I somehow doubt anyone has moral problems killing insects. So is it alright to kill creatures...except cute ones? Would it make you feel better if you thought of seals as giant, mammal locusts?