Russian Siege

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Looks like a particularly bad time to be in Russia.

What does everyone think of Vladimir's - no compromise, no prisoners policy?

[Happy-Go-Lucky]

I am sitting with a couple of flat mates, who to my disgust and astonishment, couldn't give 2 flying f*cks about this Russian Seige and are making jokes about the children being happy that their school has been destroyed. I've just had a long arguement with them about it. They have also said that when they first heard about September 11, their responce was to shrug and say "So?" As far as they are concerned, if it doesn't affect them, or there is nothing they can do about it, then it isn't worth knowing about. I personally am shocked. I know we can't affect what we see on the news, but surely we still feel compulsed to watch if something important or major happens? Please tell me these 2 insensitive sods are reasonably unique in their disinterest to such important events.

[hr]"I would lay down my life for at least 2 brothers, or 8 first cousins"
-Haldane

[andrewdalgleish]

give the bastards chechnya, it's a crappy little place that's been bombed for the past 10 years, why would russia want it anyway.

[Humphrey]

I dont know whats worse in Russia, getting taken hostage or getting rescued.

[hr]http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[paloma]

[s]andrewdalgleish wrote on 13:42, 3rd Sep 2004:
give the bastards chechnya, it's a crappy little place that's been bombed for the past 10 years, why would russia want it anyway.


This could conceivably be the most difficult choice Putin makes in his career. Either he refuses, and is seen as responsible for the lives of 300 children and parents, or then he agrees to the terms, not guaranteeing anyone's safety, and showing terrorists everywhere that the way to get results from governments is by targeting children.

The Russian gov't refused to comply with the Moscow cinema siege, and nearly 130 people were killed.

I see no way out. The terrorists know they will die anyway, they have nothing to lose. I hate to be a cynic, but I see this ending very badly. I wonder what the US would do, with their 'we do not negotiate with terrorists' stance. It is such a difficult decision.

My thoughts are with the children and their families. How is it that something as atrocious as this could happen?

[Haunted]

[s]paloma wrote on 14:21, 3rd Sep 2004:
How is it that something as atrocious as this could happen?



Because its a shitty world
and remember

"Idealism is what precedes experience; cynicism is what follows"
David T. Wolf

[fiftyfive]

"I wonder what the US would do, with their 'we do not negotiate with terrorists' stance. It is such a difficult decision."

They'd probably do a much better job of taking out the bad guys, although I'm sure there would still be loss of life. Russians just seem to use too much of a blunt instrument.

[James]

The US has said it stands beside Russia ... hmmm.

That theatre siege was the one where the Russians pumped some daft gas into the bilding, killing terrorists and hostages alike, and people still don't know what the gas was.

They really don't have a good record with hostage situations, and never seem to learn.

... and now reports say some terrorists were Arab mercinaries, so the obivous line will be taken.

[Mohawk]

fed up of people labelling attacks as being by Al quaeda - its a fucking funding group, not a terrorist cell.

damn media...



[hr]
Orientation 2004

More Details at http://www.yourunion.net/

[The Cellar Bar]

[s]andrewdalgleish wrote on 13:42, 3rd Sep 2004:
give the bastards chechnya, it's a crappy little place that's been bombed for the past 10 years, why would russia want it anyway.

key in the words "B-T-C pipeline" and see what comes up!
It runs all the way from the Caspian Sea through Georgia on the way to Turkey and Europe. And was designed by BP among others to reduce or remove European dependancy on the Middle East and US control over oil. BP has so far invested $36 billion in its building.

Which for a start explains Putin's interest in keeping Georgia intact. And probably also explains why the US is growing increasingly involved in Georgian politics as well. They have "military advisers" there already but it'll get really interesting once the Russian bases are moved out and there is space for others to move in.

[Manic23]

[s]andrewdalgleish wrote on 13:42, 3rd Sep 2004:
give the bastards chechnya, it's a crappy little place that's been bombed for the past 10 years, why would russia want it anyway.



At a glance, the first thing I read was it's a crappy little place that's been bombed for the past 10 years and for a split second I thought you were talking about Northern Ireland

[Ben]

I could see the Americans suffer large casualties as a result of "friendly-fire"...

[Mohawk]

[s]Unregisted User Ben wrote on 17:33, 3rd Sep 2004:
I could see the Americans suffer large casualties as a result of "friendly-fire"...



You don't know how close to the truth that statement was,

America has never had a large scale hostage taking on it's own turf ( well not in living memory)

how do you think they would cope?

[hr]
Orientation 2004

More Details at http://www.yourunion.net/

[Pandyboy]

I must say, the whole Checnya/Russian republic situation was summed up in the newspapaer I was reading today, which when answering "Why is Putin/Russia holding on so tightly in this issue" and after a long blurb about pride, and the threat of a domino effect of autonomy claims, there was a small adition:

"...there is also an oil interest."

Nuff sed.

[Mohawk]

[s]Pandyboy wrote on 22:20, 4th Sep 2004:
"...there is also an oil interest."

Nuff sed.


sounds like America's reason for going to war in Iraq... coincedence?

[hr]
Orientation 2004

More Details at http://www.yourunion.net/

[Marie]

How WOULD America cope? Well, this is what would happen: George W. Bush, their so-called "leader", would take a hostage siege as an opportunity to manipulate (to his advantage) the American people into a "united front" ("united we stand", "one America fighting terror", etc...) much like the aftermath of September 11th, when his approval ratings soared. An attack upon American soil like what we have seen in Russia would re-elect Bush to another 4 miserable years for not only the US but also the world.

When caught in a situation of uncertainty, doubt or threat, Americans will cling on to whatever they can: their leader. It would be Bush's ticket to another term in the White House.

Just as he surreptitiously argued that Iraq had direct ties to the happenings of September 11th in order to accomplish some personal business with Saddam, Bush would do the same in the instance of attack on Americans -- find a way to make them love him and possibly win an election legitimately.

[steerpike]

CAn anyone reading this thread in the USA please answer me this question: How high up on the news stories has the Russian school siege been?

I know that when the Madrid bombings took place, the event was overshadowed in American news by Micheal Jackson being taken to court. In CAlifornia the Madrid bombings were perhaps the sixth or seventh news item (or at least so I hear from a friend in LA), which got me a little depressed and a bit angry. How much of an active interest is America really expressing in the threat of global terrorism (ESPECIALLY when a USA ally is struck by it)? Or does shit only matter when it's on your doorstep?

[Emily]

I live in St. Peters, Missouri, USA, and I watched several news channels during the Russian hostage situation. What takes priority really depends on which new station you watch. If we're talking local news, then local news takes precedence and world news gets a small blurb near the end of the show. If you're watching CNN or one of the other 24 hour news programs, then the Russian hostage situation was in a priority spot. Mostly they switched between it and the upcoming election for several days.

[Guest]

Clinton's heart sugery was of far greater importance; one hundred and fifty Russian children dying was somewhere after the Republican convention, hurricane Frances, and the latest baseball results.

[KateBush]

[s]Happy-Go-Lucky wrote on 13:18, 3rd Sep 2004:
I am sitting with a couple of flat mates, who to my disgust and astonishment, couldn't give 2 flying f*cks about this Russian Seige and are making jokes about the children being happy that their school has been destroyed. I've just had a long arguement with them about it. They have also said that when they first heard about September 11, their responce was to shrug and say "So?" As far as they are concerned, if it doesn't affect them, or there is nothing they can do about it, then it isn't worth knowing about. I personally am shocked. I know we can't affect what we see on the news, but surely we still feel compulsed to watch if something important or major happens? Please tell me these 2 insensitive sods are reasonably unique in their disinterest to such important events.

[hr]"I would lay down my life for at least 2 brothers, or 8 first cousins"
-Haldane


Mate, they're clearly fuckwits. I lived with people like that once and they made me so fucking livid and frustrated that I thought I was either going to beat them to death with their own shoes, or have a heartattack through stress of wanting to beat them to a pulp. People like that make me SICK. Sadly your flatmates aren't unique, but they aren't the majority. I have to say though, I've met more people like that here at St andrews than anywhere else.

Take solace in karma. What goes around comes around. Hopefully they will one day know what it feels like to have a problem that nobody is bothered about helping with.

GRRR! reading your post reminded me SO much of how annoyed I used to get by these 'people', if you can call them that.

You have my sympathy. they are FUCKWITS.