Formal Dress Forum

[Anon.]

And in defence of cummerbunds - wearing a cummerbund is far preferable to wearing a high-cut waistcoat.

[exnihilo]

Low cut black waistcoats are, without doubt, the smartest thing to wear with a dinner jacket.

[Lid]

I'm still rather taken by white marcella evening waistcoat with a dinner jacket. I know it's slightly frowned upon, but it did see fashion in the 30s.

Double breasted morning waistcoats, I'm yet to make up my mind on, despite the fact I've been pondering the ones worn by the Princes of Wales yesterday, as depicted in The Daily Telegraph today.

Nice to see HRH Prince Charles wearing a slip once again.

[hr]

We are not drunks, we are multi-millionaires

[Bryn]

Quoting exnihilo from 16:44, 16th Jun 2006
Oh for God's sake! 'Judgement city'? We're expressing our opinion on an article of clothing you held up for examination. Not conducting witch trials.

Behave.

Well I was just asking for some helpful advice, and none of you have bothered

[Bryn]

Quoting exnihilo from 23:18, 16th Jun 2006
Low cut black waistcoats are, without doubt, the smartest thing to wear with a dinner jacket.

I agree, and I own one, but I wanted to try something different for Oriel Ball. I'm not going to look ridiculous because I have a good eye for such things.

[Anon.]

Quoting Lid from 01:50, 17th Jun 2006
Double breasted morning waistcoats, I'm yet to make up my mind on, despite the fact I've been pondering the ones worn by the Princes of Wales yesterday, as depicted in The Daily Telegraph today.

The style worn by the Prince of Wales - fairly low-cut, buttons close together, huge lapels - are the best.

Nice to see HRH Prince Charles wearing a slip once again.

The Earl of Wessex also tends to wear one - I think he sported one at the service you mention and he certainly was at the fly-past today.

[Anon.]

Quoting Bryn from 10:15, 17th Jun 2006
Well I was just asking for some helpful advice, and none of you have bothered

Go around the big department stores, or better the designers' own shops; if they don't have them ask them who might. After all, it's not that outlandish an item.

[Anon.]

Quoting Bryn from 10:17, 17th Jun 2006
I'm not going to look ridiculous because I have a good eye for such things.

When I used to see you when I was in St Andrews I always thought you looked vaguely poetic in black tie - like Shelley or someone. The flowing locks, big points on your wing collar, slightly-larger-than-usual bow... was that deliberate? Definitely successful, if so.

[Bryn]

Quoting Anon. from 15:44, 17th Jun 2006
When I used to see you when I was in St Andrews I always thought you looked vaguely poetic in black tie - like Shelley or someone. The flowing locks, big points on your wing collar, slightly-larger-than-usual bow... was that deliberate? Definitely successful, if so.

Gosh thank you. That's very nice

[Bryn]

Quoting Anon. from 15:37, 17th Jun 2006
Go around the big department stores, or better the designers' own shops; if they don't have them ask them who might. After all, it's not that outlandish an item.

Hm, I'll try, but I spent 5 hours searching for a dinner jacket today, so I'm feeling pooped. I'm not sure I can afford a genuine Dior one, or I would just go to Harrods and send the people to fetch me one.

[Jason Dunn]

Quoting Anon. from 15:33, 17th Jun 2006

The style worn by the Prince of Wales - fairly low-cut, buttons close together, huge lapels - are the best.

Quite.

Lots of people seem to sport morning coats with sloping lapels without the low-cut waistcoat to match.

The reason, in my humble opinion, that a low-cut evening waistcoat looks better than an standard high-cut waistcoat is the concordance between the lapels and the v (or u) of the waistcoat.

For this reason I think a three-peice suit ought to have a three buttoned jacket, that when fully buttoned should almost conceal the waistcoat underneath; not that one should ever disguise the three-piece look.

[Anon.]

Quoting Jason Dunn from 12:29, 18th Jun 2006
Lots of people seem to sport morning coats with sloping lapels without the low-cut waistcoat to match.

What do you mean by "sloping lapels"? Don't all lapels slope?

The reason, in my humble opinion, that a low-cut evening waistcoat looks better than an standard high-cut waistcoat is the concordance between the lapels and the v (or u) of the waistcoat.

The reason evening waistcoats are low-cut is to show off the shirt-front. Nowadays (since the late nineteenth century) shirt-fronts are very restrained, but historically they would have had eye-catching jewelled studs and often frills.

[Lid]

I do love my morning suit, and the waistcoat as sported by HRH The Prince of Wales, I've just about convinced myself, looks nice, I was in two minds for a while.

If only I had cause to wear a morning suit more often, I'd look into having one made, or somesuch...

As for evening waistcoats, Jason, I'm hunting as we speak. I may have to pop over to Rotherham, should you be able to drop me details of your tailor, my local tailor, Churchills made me wince when asking "what do you mean by white cotton marcella?"



[hr]

We are not drunks, we are multi-millionaires

[tintin]

Well I have a rather nice traditional dj and so on that would probably fit you if you cared to borrow it, though whether you'd want to troop up to Aberdeen to get it is another matter - I'd love to see you anyway even if it wasn't to borrow the dj!

Quoting Bryn from 00:21, 18th Jun 2006

Quoting Anon. from 15:37, 17th Jun 2006
Go around the big department stores, or better the designers' own shops; if they don't have them ask them who might. After all, it's not that outlandish an item.

Hm, I'll try, but I spent 5 hours searching for a dinner jacket today, so I'm feeling pooped. I'm not sure I can afford a genuine Dior one, or I would just go to Harrods and send the people to fetch me one.

[Bryn]

Quoting tintin from 21:36, 19th Jun 2006
Well I have a rather nice traditional dj and so on that would probably fit you if you cared to borrow it, though whether you'd want to troop up to Aberdeen to get it is another matter - I'd love to see you anyway even if it wasn't to borrow the dj!

I'm in London, so it's a bit far to go! Thanks very much though. I did find a nice one in the end. In a lovely little secondhand formalwear shop called Old Hat in Putney Bridge.

[fearghas]

I'm inclined to say that there is nothing wrong with wearing a white waistcoat with black tie, but then again I own one and do it all the time. If only the damn jacket had peak lapels, and not this notched nonsense.

Oh, and Lid, I almost got a DB morning waistcoat last week- G & H, reduced to 10GPB. But, alas, none in my size.

[Jason Dunn]

Quoting Anon. from 17:08, 18th Jun 2006
[What do you mean by "sloping lapels"? Don't all lapels slope?

Indeed they do. But some have a steeper slope than others, and it was to these that I was alluding; clumsily, admittedly.

If a morning coat is thought of as a cut-away jacket (I think they are called cutaways on the continent?), then some appear to be a three button cut-away and others a two.

What I was getting at before is that a standard waistcoat parallels the cut of the former and not the latter. Quite which look one prefers is subject to taste, of course.

However I'm sure we all agree that the lack of evening waistcoat off-the-peg is a lamentable state of affairs.

[Anon.]

I think I get you - you're referring to where the two sides of the jacket meet in the middle - around mid-sternum or lower-ribs?

[Jason Dunn]

Quoting Anon. from 17:30, 21st Jun 2006
I think I get you - you're referring to where the two sides of the jacket meet in the middle - around mid-sternum or lower-ribs?

Rem acu tetigisti, Anon.

The picture below shows a fairly low-cut waistcoat which closely matches the cut of the coat:
http://blacktiephilly.com/greycutaway.shtml

Below shows a coat of the same cut worn with a high-cut waistcoat, putting far too much of the waistcoat on display: the overall appearance of which is, I feel, less harmonious.
http://www.lequest.co.uk/ascot.htm

Finally, and then I really will shut up and stop twaddling on, this picture illustrates, in my opinion, the very neatest three-peice cut.
http://www.mysuitshop.com/images/shop/10871.jpg

[Jason Dunn]

Deleted repetition.