Minutes

[Epeeduelist84]

Is anyone else reading this thread reminded of Don Quixote?

[Al]

Quoting ohhmy from 16:42, 17th Apr 2006
I again call for perspective. Give Victoria a chance to complete them. They exist and there is the summmer. Its a tough job often writing 3000 words of minutes every week and then of course there are the BoT meetings. Dont forgett that she is a third year medic and I wouldn't blame her for being a bit behind. I have every faith that she will write them up and complete her job.

As to the other mater discussed on this thred in relation to the DoSDA and the previous clerk, I believe that any person who would spread such an entirley false and hatefull rumor is entirely dishonourable and without a thred of decency.

Grow up.

Hasn't she had a chance to complete them? Didn't she have a year to complete them? There may be many valid reasons why they were not done on time but pressure of academic work is not one.

And what rumour is being spread?

[Eliot Wilson]

It has always been the policy for Association positions, surely, that there are valid excuses for not fulfilling one's remit in whatever respect but that academic work is not one of them? After all, no-one who is elected to any kind of position has it thrust upon them; he or she seeks the position in full knowledge of its duties (or else is an ass). We could all exchange tales of woe in which academic commitments had to be balanced with other responsibilities (tho' I do note that it is not Miss Westwood herself who is throwing up this argument, which is good). I was elected Chairman of Ways and Means in the April of my magistrand year, when, to put it mildly, I had other pressures upon me, but things still got done. That's not a boast - it was expected of me - it's merely an observation.

[hr]

Bill and Ted beat the Grim Reaper at Twister

Bill: "You played very well, Death, especially with your totally heavy Death robes."

Death: "Don't patronise me."

[exnihilo]

And you are one of a great long line of people who managed to balance academic work with being on the Board (myself included), and discharging your duties well and properly. Only in recent years has this cry started to arise of the Board positions being far too much work. Would that all this enormous strain and effort every other Board member has claimed to be putting in for the past five years was actually evidenced in a better Society. But now I dream.

And, yes, academic work is the one excuse you cannot use. It's a university, everyone has academic work, I was a sodding postgrad when I was variously Treasurer of the Association, Minute Secretary of same and Rector's Assessor, and I can assure you they're a lot more onerous than any Board position.

[ChrisH]

The reason there are no minutes in the book is a simple one, you can only paste in minutes in chronological order (otherwise it makes little sense). Yet the former clerks are working on their years first, so it will take time.
The new clerk did make an undertaking to try and get the book up to date by the end of summer, while this may not be possible there is a concerted effort underway to get things up to date. I suggest that any more moaning be left til then, when we should have our own messageboard [img]littleicons/wink.gif[/img]

And there are non-academic reasons why Victoria may not have the minutes completed for last year, as well as aesthetic ones. She likes to do a good job of them. It all depends on what type of minutes you want, ones for posterity, or business like ones that get signed off and forgotten.

[exnihilo]

Fair points, experience suggests, however, that that's a good way to lose minutes forever. In previous years where problems arose, a number of pages were set aside for the missing minutes and the minuting resumed. Giving some semblance of a record, patchy perhaps but better than nothing whatever.

Also worth noting is that minutes are easier to write when still fresh, one can remember better what was said and to what one's notes refer a week later than a year later when they may be all but unintelligible - unless verbatim, in which case I can't see how there could be a problem in the first instance...

[Chris]

The issue with respect to the minute book is simple, you cannot add minutes to it unless the previous minutes are in there already. Thus while it is proper that former clerks should work on completing their own year's work first, it cannot be added to the book until the previous years are caught up with.
One of Beth's aims when she ran for election was to attempt to organise a catchup and have everything in the book by the end of the summer. I feel that seeing as how there are plans involving several former clerks and the current clerk to deal with this that we should all be patient until after the summer.

By then we should have a nice shiny website to moan on, if needs be [img]littleicons/wink.gif[/img]

[Guest]

With a certain predictable resignation I ask - should we now give up all hope of these minutes ever appearing?

[OhhMy]

Quoting from 08:14, 16th Feb 2007
With a certain predictable resignation I ask - should we now give up all hope of these minutes ever appearing?

Or the identities of those sniping on the sinnner who are not brave enough to reveal who they are?
-Rob.

[RJ Covino]

While I didn't make the unregistered point, said user does bring up something valid. I'd love to see the minutes for the many table speeches which I gave, but they're simply not available. Is it right that there continues to be a gap?

[exnihilo]

It's pathetic that this has been allowed to go on. Those who took the minutes should have damned well produced them, it's an insult to everyone who spoke in those debates.

There is, as I already said, always the option to leave blank pages and put in those we do have. Possibly name and shame the clerks who haven't supplied theirs?

Or make it a standing policy of the Society to enact a ban on board members who do not do their jobs - we always say we have no way of disciplining people but the Convenor has always had the right to ban people from the Chamber, not select them for IVs, etc.

[David Bean]

As far as I'm concerned, the worst offenders are Tom Jamieson and Steven Burge, neither of whom, so far as I could tell when I took over from the latter, produced a word.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[David Bean]

As far as I'm concerned, the worst offenders are Tom Jamieson and Stephen Burge, neither of whom, so far as I could tell when I took over from the latter, produced a word.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[Cain]

Quoting David Bean from 20:02, 17th Feb 2007
As far as I'm concerned, the worst offenders are Tom Jamieson and Stephen Burge, neither of whom, so far as I could tell when I took over from the latter, produced a word.

You've used this defence before and I've attacked it before.

Being better than something that is not very good is not the same as being good.

[hr]

I hold an element of surprise

[OhhMy]

Quoting exnihilo from 14:00, 17th Feb 2007
It's pathetic that this has been allowed to go on. Those who took the minutes should have damned well produced them, it's an insult to everyone who spoke in those debates.

There is, as I already said, always the option to leave blank pages and put in those we do have. Possibly name and shame the clerks who haven't supplied theirs?

Or make it a standing policy of the Society to enact a ban on board members who do not do their jobs - we always say we have no way of disciplining people but the Convenor has always had the right to ban people from the Chamber, not select them for IVs, etc.

I agree - I think. Leaving gaps seems to be the best option and means that minutes that do exist are placed where they should be. Helping to keep as full a record as possible. Though I think perhaps we should resign our selves to the fact that minutes from Clerks who have left are unlikely to turn up. But I don't know the situation at the moment, I have not been as involved this year as I would have liked.

[David Bean]

You've used this defence before and I've attacked it before.

Being better than something that is not very good is not the same as being good.

I wasn't aware I was defending anything. I was simply pointing out to the older posters on the board that the problems of getting minutes out of unco-operative clerks is not new, but one that they had apparently as much problem confronting in their day as the current generation do. As far as being good is concerned, well, I'm pretty sure I'm the only clerk in the past seven years who produced a full set of minutes, so I think I have a fair idea what that entails.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[ChrisH]

I know the Alex Jennings certainly has the notes for some previous clerks and is planning to have them written up by the time she leaves.

So hopefully there might be a few more debates to put in the book.

[exnihilo]

It begins to look like rather than needing an assistant to find speakers and a deputy to chair Baord meetings what's really needed is someone to harry the clerk.