Wireless Ethernet

[Pilmour Boy]

Is there any chance of the powers that be in Wired Soc could start pressing for an 802.11b network on campus, even if it was only in the Library it would be of huge use to those of us with laptops, and relieve a lot of the pressure on the 3rd floor internet access cubicles.

[The_Farwall]

Come on, they have enough trouble makeing the terrestrial LAN do anything vaguely useful for more than a week at a time. You really want them to shell out money for a wireless one and then have no idea how to maintain it?

[hr]"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy."
- Charlie McCarthy

[teamonkey]

[s]The_Farwall wrote on 11:42, 7th Sep 2002:
You really want them to shell out money for a wireless one and then have no idea how to maintain it?


That's not really fair: it's a pretty tough job to maintain a large network like ResNet - especially since other areas such as the e-mail servers have a higher priority (although I do think that someone should be in on weekends since ResNet invariably goes down on Fridays ).

Anyway, WLAN is _very_ insecure. There is no way that they'll provide WLAN access to the university network. That said, it's an interesting idea, and if we could get enough interest we could do some sort of 802.11 project.

Anyone know anything about high-gain antennas?

[James Baster]

Wlan doesnt have to be insecure. but it would be a lot of work.

Incidentilly, there is a wireless network in John Honey, the Comp Sci labs.

[hr][s]"buffy sucks, the movie sucked, the WB is the sole reason for the downfall of America" - Well, now we know ...[/s]

[Pilmour Boy]

doesn't mean that they couldn't do it. Anybody with a laptop can walk in and plug into the corals on the 3rd floor of the library, and then run a packet sniffer, as there's no MAC filtering going on for those access ports.

[TheGamesMaster]

Then why don't you just do that?

[Pilmour Boy]

[s]TheGamesMaster wrote on 20:12, 8th Sep 2002:
Then why don't you just do that?





Because there are just three corals for all the students, and they are in use 2/3 of the time, but with an 802.11b network there, I could sit in the main bit of the library and use the network. Also, the corals have a note on the door specifically stating that they are for network use only, not for studying, and when I'm researching, I'm not going to be using the network all the time, so I'd rather not tie it up for someone else.

[teamonkey]

[s]Pilmour Boy wrote on 09:36, 8th Sep 2002:
Anybody with a laptop can walk in and plug into the corals on the 3rd floor of the library, and then run a packet sniffer, as there's no MAC filtering going on for those access ports.


I believe ITS are going to restrict the corals by MAC address soon.

This is a pain because it means that you won't be able to access the
network without a ResNet account, which means that you've got a room in
halls with a network connection, so why bother taking your laptop to the
library? Surely the people who need access in the library are those
without a network connection?

[Oli]

The idea of a wireless LAN would help not only the people in the library, but those in nearby buildings as well.

If the library system worked, then it would lead the way for a wireless network to cover the whole of St Andrews. The new university buildings (such as the new DRH) would save countless miles of cable, and could also provide high speed access to private residences nearby.

It would make sense to start setting this up, but there's the question of whether the university is prepared to think of the future just yet...

[Pilmour Boy]

[s]Oli wrote on 13:41, 14th Sep 2002:
The idea of a wireless LAN would help not only the people in the library, but those in nearby buildings as well.

If the library system worked, then it would lead the way for a wireless network to cover the whole of St Andrews. The new university buildings (such as the new DRH) would save countless miles of cable, and could also provide high speed access to private residences nearby.

It would make sense to start setting this up, but there's the question of whether the university is prepared to think of the future just yet...




802.11b has a range on only around 30/40 metres, which while being twice that of 802.11a is still very restricted. There is also the bandwidth (relative lack of) to be considered. Until 802.11g gets here, I view wireless ethernet as only really being useful for the last few metres in high density use situations- such as the study area in the Library and in lecture halls. I understand that Gatty Marine Laboratory now has complete coverage.

[Oli]

I was under the impression that there are some wirless LANs with a range of up to 200 metres...

[James Baster]

The only such things I have seen with that range have antannaes the size of my arm and thus really arent practical for day to day life. Plus it was a one-to-one link only really, not a one-to-many such as wireless access points. Anyone care to correct me? That was several years ago.

Besides, 200M? How many of those would you need to blanket St. Andrews?

[hr][s]One, Nothing wrong with me, Two, Nothing Wrong with me, Three, Nothing Wrong with me, Four, Nothing Wrong with me - Drowning Pool[/s]

[teamonkey]

I remember seeing something on Slashdot a few weeks ago about a 2km WLAN. Big antenna needed though.

[Oli]

Probably around 10 to effectively cover all the University buildings in St Andrews. And I don't think that an antenna the size of James' arm would be too much in the way.

After all, the mobile phone transmitters are all over the place. Surely it would be pretty easy to install an antenna next to existing aerials?

[James Baster]

The antanne the side of my arm on both sides. Like I said, the stuff I saw was for one-to-one links, not one antane to many ickle laptops.

[hr][s]One, Nothing wrong with me, Two, Nothing Wrong with me, Three, Nothing Wrong with me, Four, Nothing Wrong with me - Drowning Pool[/s]

[Pilmour Boy]

today, and they confimed that the corals are a thing of the past. I think it is really bad that IT staff here do not think themselves capable of keeping a basic public access network secure. If they are that concerned, they could just set up a MAC based filter, or make us authenticate with a web page before allowing anything else to that socket.
Do you think we could persuade ITS to let us put an 802.11b base station there in the library, and then require filtering based on MAC addresses to let people connect. I would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for this.
I think that this just gives us people in flats a bigger incentive to get ADSL. Anyone fancy sharing? I think you'll be able to guess where I live...

[James Baster]

Personally, if its a choice I'd demand the corals back. I know very few people who have wireless network cards and they are more expensive than standard ethernets, which some laptops have as standard. Myself I'd be pissed off If I'd just splashed £50 on a ethernet card one year then next year being told I had to spent £80 on a wireless card.

Harvard has a fantasic system for resnet. You just plug your laptop in, access any webpage, they redirect you to a secure page where they take your credit card and personal details and bingo! Your done.

[hr][s]One, Nothing wrong with me, Two, Nothing Wrong with me, Three, Nothing Wrong with me, Four, Nothing Wrong with me - Drowning Pool[/s]

[Pilmour Boy]

but I've already got both:)

[LeopardSkinQueen]

[s]Pilmour Boy wrote on 14:30, 20th Sep 2002:
but I've already got both:)


So what? The point being made is that most people don't.

And also that most people do not have the money to shell out for a wireless network card. An Airport card is £80- whats the point in setting up a network which is more expensive for the uni and which means loads of people have to buy new cards? Makes no sense at all.



[hr]
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[Oli]

Errr.... It's better and easier