[s]Tweedle-Dum wrote on 23:26, 2nd Aug 2004:
You stole my idea, wait, we could have competing parties. Though last time I and the Environment and Ethics officer had a party competing with some crazy americans, we lost. horrendously.
That was because you lacked a bucket.
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Re:
by Tweedle-Dum on Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:20 pm
[s]Unregisted User wrote on 09:57, 3rd Aug 2004:
[s]Tweedle-Dum wrote on 23:26, 2nd Aug 2004:[i]
You stole my idea, wait, we could have competing parties. Though last time I and the Environment and Ethics officer had a party competing with some crazy americans, we lost. horrendously.
That was because you lacked a bucket.
[/i]
No, it's because the bucket party was on the way to my one, and Will locked the alcohol in his room and went off with a girl.
[s]Tweedle-Dum wrote on 23:26, 2nd Aug 2004:[i]
You stole my idea, wait, we could have competing parties. Though last time I and the Environment and Ethics officer had a party competing with some crazy americans, we lost. horrendously.
That was because you lacked a bucket.
[/i]
No, it's because the bucket party was on the way to my one, and Will locked the alcohol in his room and went off with a girl.
Tetragrammaton is a four letter word.
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Tweedle-Dum
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Re:
by Guest on Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:13 am
I suppose it's good that I'm gonna be on the mixed floor, then, because I don't mind it as much as all of you seem to.
But thanks all of you for answering my questions... I'm pretty excited about coming, if you can't tell. And E-floor had BETTER be the party floor. Don't let the freshers down, people.
But thanks all of you for answering my questions... I'm pretty excited about coming, if you can't tell. And E-floor had BETTER be the party floor. Don't let the freshers down, people.
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Guest
Re:
by Simon Atkins on Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:12 pm
“But thanks all of you for answering my questions... I'm pretty excited about coming, if you can't tell. And E-floor had BETTER be the party floor. Don't let the freshers down, people.”
You will find that more and more the freshers will set the atmosphere of different areas. The older years will often still be doing the parting with you but the parties will be attracted to areas where people who want to party live.
“Err no. I'm sure guys would like it but the majority of women would NOT. No way. Floors should be single sex, as should showers and most toilets.”
When discussing my views with other students I tend not to try and speak for “the majority” of either men or students. I am dubious of anyone who, in a regular discussion, would generalize when there is no evidence or mandate to fall back on. There seems to be a misunderstanding that is obviously my fault for not expressing my point clearly enough, sorry. I am by no way claiming “men” want anything, simply pointing out there is no point in the application process (that I am aware of) where you are offered the choice of mixed facilities or not.
“The hall I was in, the guys floors smelled so bad it was really awful. Even the warden didn't venture down there.
Added to the fact that a lot of girls would kick up a fuss at the idea of sleeping near guys, especially CU types or whatever. ”
I am aware of many reasons why people would want single sex facilities (girls belonging to a certain organization is not one I would have come up with), I have always found getting a shower on a male floor a lot easier than several of my female friends have. I have friends who preferred not to run in to a man in the middle of the night when they were coming out of the toilet (though anyone who has lived in university accommodation will know you will never stop that happening).
I had to live in my first year in a DRH block that had a revolting smell, particularly on my landing that was not caused by 3 of the 4 of us living there, if you are saying men are ok living with bad smelling accommodation I don’t quite see your justification of that? Several universities (mainly in the south of England) where I have stayed with friends had mixed facilities. The system worked fine, no horrendous smells (certainly less than I experienced in various halls here). I understand the system also works in other countries but as I haven’t stayed in any I’ll leave that for someone else.
If staff aren’t prepared to enter a corridor because it smells extremely bad then I might assume that some of the people living there don’t want to either, so it is a problem that should be put right. I would be rather concerned if part of a hall was allowed to descend to a point where residents didn’t enjoy living there but nothing was done because “it’s a guys floor.”
The point I was trying to put across was that an automatic separation between male and female floors/blocks is not a sensible idea. A choice on application forms is simple enough and it would allow those who have a problem with sharing facilities to express that. The view “people don’t want that” is one often given by the university on all kinds of issues. I have a problem with sweeping generalizations as often the information they are reading from is limited or biased for all kinds of reasons. It may be worth mentioning mixed facilities exist in houses in Gatty and Fife Park for returning students.
Having lived in a hall where there was a mixed floor that I think the wardens thought was less than ideal I would say if a hall were going to have mixed facilities it should not be on only one floor. There was a lot of noise on B floor in 2002/03 when it was a mixed floor; it had become the party floor. If there had been more mixed floors then I think it would have been clear that B floor was the party floor because certain people lived there not because it was mixed.
Choice is not something we have been particularly big on historically. In other universities (mainly US) there is a choice of specifically quite halls (and other types) it is interesting that all four years I lived in halls I listened to people complain about the noise from other residents or that someone else was too easy offended. We do seem to have taken the one size fits all approach. Maybe we should look elsewhere to see how our accommodation system could run rather than try and take our experience of here and guess the effect of a change.
You will find that more and more the freshers will set the atmosphere of different areas. The older years will often still be doing the parting with you but the parties will be attracted to areas where people who want to party live.
“Err no. I'm sure guys would like it but the majority of women would NOT. No way. Floors should be single sex, as should showers and most toilets.”
When discussing my views with other students I tend not to try and speak for “the majority” of either men or students. I am dubious of anyone who, in a regular discussion, would generalize when there is no evidence or mandate to fall back on. There seems to be a misunderstanding that is obviously my fault for not expressing my point clearly enough, sorry. I am by no way claiming “men” want anything, simply pointing out there is no point in the application process (that I am aware of) where you are offered the choice of mixed facilities or not.
“The hall I was in, the guys floors smelled so bad it was really awful. Even the warden didn't venture down there.
Added to the fact that a lot of girls would kick up a fuss at the idea of sleeping near guys, especially CU types or whatever. ”
I am aware of many reasons why people would want single sex facilities (girls belonging to a certain organization is not one I would have come up with), I have always found getting a shower on a male floor a lot easier than several of my female friends have. I have friends who preferred not to run in to a man in the middle of the night when they were coming out of the toilet (though anyone who has lived in university accommodation will know you will never stop that happening).
I had to live in my first year in a DRH block that had a revolting smell, particularly on my landing that was not caused by 3 of the 4 of us living there, if you are saying men are ok living with bad smelling accommodation I don’t quite see your justification of that? Several universities (mainly in the south of England) where I have stayed with friends had mixed facilities. The system worked fine, no horrendous smells (certainly less than I experienced in various halls here). I understand the system also works in other countries but as I haven’t stayed in any I’ll leave that for someone else.
If staff aren’t prepared to enter a corridor because it smells extremely bad then I might assume that some of the people living there don’t want to either, so it is a problem that should be put right. I would be rather concerned if part of a hall was allowed to descend to a point where residents didn’t enjoy living there but nothing was done because “it’s a guys floor.”
The point I was trying to put across was that an automatic separation between male and female floors/blocks is not a sensible idea. A choice on application forms is simple enough and it would allow those who have a problem with sharing facilities to express that. The view “people don’t want that” is one often given by the university on all kinds of issues. I have a problem with sweeping generalizations as often the information they are reading from is limited or biased for all kinds of reasons. It may be worth mentioning mixed facilities exist in houses in Gatty and Fife Park for returning students.
Having lived in a hall where there was a mixed floor that I think the wardens thought was less than ideal I would say if a hall were going to have mixed facilities it should not be on only one floor. There was a lot of noise on B floor in 2002/03 when it was a mixed floor; it had become the party floor. If there had been more mixed floors then I think it would have been clear that B floor was the party floor because certain people lived there not because it was mixed.
Choice is not something we have been particularly big on historically. In other universities (mainly US) there is a choice of specifically quite halls (and other types) it is interesting that all four years I lived in halls I listened to people complain about the noise from other residents or that someone else was too easy offended. We do seem to have taken the one size fits all approach. Maybe we should look elsewhere to see how our accommodation system could run rather than try and take our experience of here and guess the effect of a change.
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Simon Atkins
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Re:
by Colin on Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:33 pm
[s]Simon Atkins wrote on 18:13, 1st Aug 2004:In my second year E floor was absolutely fantastic for parties where everyone was just up for a party at any point and the common room above the wide bit made it a relatively safe place to hold a party with out disturbing people. In my third year however B floor became the party floor, E floor had a few attempts to reclaim the title with Sleazy Col trying to start some but they died.
Was always a little tricky once I didn't live there any more. Still, didn't stop me then, and it wont this year either!! See you all in freshers week!
P.S. E-Floor will very likely reclaim its crown, as Flat-Pack Paul is moving down there this year. He was one of the major reasons things moved upstairs 2 years ago. Well that and B-Floor being mixed sex that year.
Was always a little tricky once I didn't live there any more. Still, didn't stop me then, and it wont this year either!! See you all in freshers week!
P.S. E-Floor will very likely reclaim its crown, as Flat-Pack Paul is moving down there this year. He was one of the major reasons things moved upstairs 2 years ago. Well that and B-Floor being mixed sex that year.
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Colin
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Re:
by Tweedle-Dum on Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:13 pm
In response to Simon, I too would protest a lot if I was forced to live near CU types, it's a good thing the one I know of that I'm near is only pretending he's a fundamentalist christian in order to pull, otherwise I'd lock my door at night.
Tetragrammaton is a four letter word.
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Tweedle-Dum
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Re:
by Midget on Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:58 pm
Many girls complain about being put in Wardlaw -the ultimate separation beteween sexes.
Actually everything else i was going to say has been said by Simon. (I can see some fun hacks' games of Simon says this year)
Actually everything else i was going to say has been said by Simon. (I can see some fun hacks' games of Simon says this year)
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Midget
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Re:
by Tweedle-Dum on Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:48 pm
[s]Midget wrote on 00:58, 5th Aug 2004:
Many girls complain about being put in Wardlaw -the ultimate separation beteween sexes.
Actually everything else i was going to say has been said by Simon. (I can see some fun hacks' games of Simon says this year)
Instead of doing it when someone says "Simon says" you do it when it's official union policy/rules since Simon knows them all.
Many girls complain about being put in Wardlaw -the ultimate separation beteween sexes.
Actually everything else i was going to say has been said by Simon. (I can see some fun hacks' games of Simon says this year)
Instead of doing it when someone says "Simon says" you do it when it's official union policy/rules since Simon knows them all.
Tetragrammaton is a four letter word.
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Tweedle-Dum
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Re:
by Guest on Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:15 am
[s]Unregisted User wrote on 23:39, 2nd Aug 2004:
Err no. I'm sure guys would like it but the majority of women would NOT.
Interesting that this is only a problem in St Andrews as at many universities where facilities are shared there is not a problem.
The hall I was in, the guys floors smelled so bad it was really awful. Even the warden didn't venture down there.
So from experience here (and applied to a situation you have no experience of) and not bassed upon comparisons with an alternative system. Well done, ignorance is a good place to start your case.
Added to the fact that a lot of girls would kick up a fuss at the idea of sleeping near guys, especially CU types or whatever.
Why do you assume a "certain type" of girl will be scared sleeping near a guy? They sleep near guys in ensuit halls why would the distance in a standard halls be more of a problem.
Floors should be split by gender, or else there will be a huuuuge amount of agro.
From your evidence...?
Err no. I'm sure guys would like it but the majority of women would NOT.
Interesting that this is only a problem in St Andrews as at many universities where facilities are shared there is not a problem.
The hall I was in, the guys floors smelled so bad it was really awful. Even the warden didn't venture down there.
So from experience here (and applied to a situation you have no experience of) and not bassed upon comparisons with an alternative system. Well done, ignorance is a good place to start your case.
Added to the fact that a lot of girls would kick up a fuss at the idea of sleeping near guys, especially CU types or whatever.
Why do you assume a "certain type" of girl will be scared sleeping near a guy? They sleep near guys in ensuit halls why would the distance in a standard halls be more of a problem.
Floors should be split by gender, or else there will be a huuuuge amount of agro.
From your evidence...?
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Guest
Re:
by Guest on Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:16 am
The floor smelled during term time. It didn't during summer when "normal" people lived there. Ergo the problem was down to smelly male students. The other male floor had a slightly less bad smell. The female floors had no bad odour at all.
And when I say majority I mean as a female and someone who did in fact know the majority of females in my hall. So ner
And the fact is that I as a woman would not be comfortable living on a floor with guys who I don't know well enough to trust when they are drunk. I would feel vulnerable and scared, regardless of their hygiene or the stickiness of the bathroom floor :/ And I'm someone with a lot of male pals, so god knows how a woman who normally feels vulnerable around strange men or large numbers of men would feel!
And when I say majority I mean as a female and someone who did in fact know the majority of females in my hall. So ner
And the fact is that I as a woman would not be comfortable living on a floor with guys who I don't know well enough to trust when they are drunk. I would feel vulnerable and scared, regardless of their hygiene or the stickiness of the bathroom floor :/ And I'm someone with a lot of male pals, so god knows how a woman who normally feels vulnerable around strange men or large numbers of men would feel!
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Guest
Re:
by Guest on Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:31 pm
[s]Unregisted User wrote on 17:07, 4th Aug 2004:
So from experience here (and applied to a situation you have no experience of) and not bassed upon comparisons with an alternative system. Well done, ignorance is a good place to start your case.
No actually, I have lived in both kinds of accommodation, and only in the second type did I have to put up with arrogant twats such as yourself 24/7.
Are you female? If not you aren't really in a position to comment on whether a woman would feel uncomfortable. I am and I have felt very uncomfortable. The only reason I lived on a guys floor (for three years) was because I was staying with my boyfriend and his walls were thicker. I was very uncomfortable going to the toilet in the middle of the night and getting drunken cat calls from guys I did not socialise with or wish to know because they were very loud and rude to a lot of people. The people there one year deemed me unworthy because they were all from private schools, the other years they were just guys I didn't know.
I went back to my own floor to shower because the guys ones were manky (the cleaner just loved cleaning actual shit out of them). The toilets I had to wipe down any time before I wanted to use them. One end of the floor smelled. 2 other girls stayed on that floor, none of them showered or even toileted on that floor, they went to the girls floor to do so. Many of my mates wouldn't walk along the guys floor at night even though it was a quicker way to their own rooms.
The only reason I felt safe enough there was because I knew my bf was only a shout away and because he is a big guy and people knew I was with him so were unlikely to start anything.
The guys floor was also much more noisy with really loud music til god knows what time in the morning - this was at the other end of the floor so i couldn't really hear it but people on the floors above (female floors) could. None of them would come downstairs in the middle of the night to tell them to put the music down because the guys were loud and drunk and that does intimidate people, but especially a lot of women. This was only a problem one year when the sub warden was rubbish but when a girl did come down to tell them to turn it down she just got sexist abuse hurled at her.
Not all guys are like this, that is of course obvious. But there are always some that are. And no matter how playful a guy is being being cat called by drunk men (often semi or completely naked :/ ) in the middle of the night on a dark corridor is intimidating.
I had a choice over where I stayed and due to nosy neighbours where I was (and thin walls) I stayed on a guys floor. Most couples had the guy on the girls floor. One guy is not intimidating, half a floor of them is.
Had I been on a guys floor straight off from the beginning with no choice I would have been really miserable and intimidated. There was in fact a really nasty incident that really scared me from a creep before I was living on the floor when I travelled along it one night but I don't want to go into that. Suffice to say it put me walking down there by myself (and put off a few other people), and the times I walked down the corridor as a shortcut after was with my bf.
So by all means make some halls mixed floor and some not provided there is room for everyone to make a choice. And given at the moment there isn't enough space for everyone who wants it as it is, I don't think that is an option at the moment.
So from experience here (and applied to a situation you have no experience of) and not bassed upon comparisons with an alternative system. Well done, ignorance is a good place to start your case.
No actually, I have lived in both kinds of accommodation, and only in the second type did I have to put up with arrogant twats such as yourself 24/7.
Are you female? If not you aren't really in a position to comment on whether a woman would feel uncomfortable. I am and I have felt very uncomfortable. The only reason I lived on a guys floor (for three years) was because I was staying with my boyfriend and his walls were thicker. I was very uncomfortable going to the toilet in the middle of the night and getting drunken cat calls from guys I did not socialise with or wish to know because they were very loud and rude to a lot of people. The people there one year deemed me unworthy because they were all from private schools, the other years they were just guys I didn't know.
I went back to my own floor to shower because the guys ones were manky (the cleaner just loved cleaning actual shit out of them). The toilets I had to wipe down any time before I wanted to use them. One end of the floor smelled. 2 other girls stayed on that floor, none of them showered or even toileted on that floor, they went to the girls floor to do so. Many of my mates wouldn't walk along the guys floor at night even though it was a quicker way to their own rooms.
The only reason I felt safe enough there was because I knew my bf was only a shout away and because he is a big guy and people knew I was with him so were unlikely to start anything.
The guys floor was also much more noisy with really loud music til god knows what time in the morning - this was at the other end of the floor so i couldn't really hear it but people on the floors above (female floors) could. None of them would come downstairs in the middle of the night to tell them to put the music down because the guys were loud and drunk and that does intimidate people, but especially a lot of women. This was only a problem one year when the sub warden was rubbish but when a girl did come down to tell them to turn it down she just got sexist abuse hurled at her.
Not all guys are like this, that is of course obvious. But there are always some that are. And no matter how playful a guy is being being cat called by drunk men (often semi or completely naked :/ ) in the middle of the night on a dark corridor is intimidating.
I had a choice over where I stayed and due to nosy neighbours where I was (and thin walls) I stayed on a guys floor. Most couples had the guy on the girls floor. One guy is not intimidating, half a floor of them is.
Had I been on a guys floor straight off from the beginning with no choice I would have been really miserable and intimidated. There was in fact a really nasty incident that really scared me from a creep before I was living on the floor when I travelled along it one night but I don't want to go into that. Suffice to say it put me walking down there by myself (and put off a few other people), and the times I walked down the corridor as a shortcut after was with my bf.
So by all means make some halls mixed floor and some not provided there is room for everyone to make a choice. And given at the moment there isn't enough space for everyone who wants it as it is, I don't think that is an option at the moment.
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Guest
Re:
by Guest on Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:31 pm
And the fact is that I as a woman would not be comfortable living on a floor with guys who I don't know well enough to trust when they are drunk.
I as a female must the respond: isn't that why we have locks on our doors? So strange men can't come stumbling in? Because I must assume that you would be in contact with strange, drunken men until you get to your floor, and if you don't feel vulnerable then, why should the extra minute, minute and a half it takes to get to your room make that much of a difference?
I like living around guys. They're fun. But maybe I'm the exception.
I as a female must the respond: isn't that why we have locks on our doors? So strange men can't come stumbling in? Because I must assume that you would be in contact with strange, drunken men until you get to your floor, and if you don't feel vulnerable then, why should the extra minute, minute and a half it takes to get to your room make that much of a difference?
I like living around guys. They're fun. But maybe I'm the exception.
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Guest
Re:
by Tweedle-Dum on Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:04 pm
Yes, guys are fun. Parties (proper ones) never happen on girls floors.
Tetragrammaton is a four letter word.
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Tweedle-Dum
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Re:
by Midget on Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:29 pm
BUT THERE WOULDN'T BE GUYS OR GIRLS FLOORS IF IT WERE MIXED THATS THE POINT PEOPLE.
Therefore the guys would be spread out rather than concentrated, so girls stop complaining. The suggestion was MIXED floors not floors of predominantly guys who would "intimidate" a small number of girls.
Therefore the guys would be spread out rather than concentrated, so girls stop complaining. The suggestion was MIXED floors not floors of predominantly guys who would "intimidate" a small number of girls.
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Midget
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Re:
by Guest on Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:18 am
[s]Midget wrote on 22:29, 5th Aug 2004:
BUT THERE WOULDN'T BE GUYS OR GIRLS FLOORS IF IT WERE MIXED THATS THE POINT PEOPLE.
Therefore the guys would be spread out rather than concentrated, so girls stop complaining. The suggestion was MIXED floors not floors of predominantly guys who would "intimidate" a small number of girls.
Stop shouting. My point was that it is all fine and well if people are given the CHOICE. Due to a shortage of accommodation that can't happen. And mixed floors would still have a lot of guys on them, unless you have a different definition of the word mixed.
If people have the choice then fine, but if not I would rather be "forced" to live on a single sex floor than on a mixed sex floor. No one would have a problem with the first option, some would with the second.
So no choice, no thanks.
BUT THERE WOULDN'T BE GUYS OR GIRLS FLOORS IF IT WERE MIXED THATS THE POINT PEOPLE.
Therefore the guys would be spread out rather than concentrated, so girls stop complaining. The suggestion was MIXED floors not floors of predominantly guys who would "intimidate" a small number of girls.
Stop shouting. My point was that it is all fine and well if people are given the CHOICE. Due to a shortage of accommodation that can't happen. And mixed floors would still have a lot of guys on them, unless you have a different definition of the word mixed.
If people have the choice then fine, but if not I would rather be "forced" to live on a single sex floor than on a mixed sex floor. No one would have a problem with the first option, some would with the second.
So no choice, no thanks.
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Guest
Re:
by kairos339 on Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:18 am
I have to say, although it may be somewhat common at certain schools, the whole "mixed floor" concept is a pretty interesting one to me. In all honesty, the idea of sharing a floor, let alone a bathroom, with the opposite sex never really crossed my mind... probably because I'm at an American university, where the rules are a little different. It's a big state school, so it's not like the dorm system is considered rigid or conservative by any stretch of the imagination- but even still, in all the dorms, there are visitation hours for the opposite sex. (Do you have those at St. A's?) And in the single sex dorms, a guy/girl has to be escorted around the floor- so a guy can't just be wandering around a girls floor alone, he has to have a girl with him, And vice-versa. It's not that bad, I've lived in both co-ed and single sex dorms, and they were fine, although the escort policy IS annoying at times... Example: You're in the middle of watching a great movie, and one of your guy friends has to BADLY use the one-and-only male bathroom in the building, which is 4 floors down and hidden in a remote corner. So, you have to either get up out of your warm 'n comfy chair and take him so that he doesn't get lost/get caught un-escorted...or you tell him to hold it and risk having to clean up the puddle he leaves on your rug. Hmm...
As a girl, I can't say that a mixed system makes me feel intimidated, upset, happy, or anything at all, at this point. It's just an interesting change, with lots of pros and cons. I guess I'll see how things go in September.
*On a more personal note, I mentioned this whole "mixed" floor and unisex bathroom concept to my boyfriend here, (who's already a little grouchy about having his girlfriend alone and across an ocean for an entire year...) and he was rather, uhh, unenthusiastic about the whole thing. Maybe it was just him being protective, jealous, unsure... I don't know, but I could definitely understand why some might have a few misgivings about strange/drunk men (or women) roaming around the floor, toilets, showers, etc...
As a girl, I can't say that a mixed system makes me feel intimidated, upset, happy, or anything at all, at this point. It's just an interesting change, with lots of pros and cons. I guess I'll see how things go in September.
*On a more personal note, I mentioned this whole "mixed" floor and unisex bathroom concept to my boyfriend here, (who's already a little grouchy about having his girlfriend alone and across an ocean for an entire year...) and he was rather, uhh, unenthusiastic about the whole thing. Maybe it was just him being protective, jealous, unsure... I don't know, but I could definitely understand why some might have a few misgivings about strange/drunk men (or women) roaming around the floor, toilets, showers, etc...
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kairos339
Re:
by Tweedle-Dum on Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:35 pm
If there were no girls floors, where would I go to find a clean shower?
Tetragrammaton is a four letter word.
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Tweedle-Dum
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