why?

[Guest]

i have a question.

how do degrees in things like art history, philosophy, history, latin, english etc etc will help you in getting a job? i cannot see how they will possibly help. unlike econ and management, these artsy subjects has absolutely no use at all? so why would people waste their time in studying such things?

[Cain]

because doing a degree is a worthwhile achievement.

and because doing these degrees helps your thinking and evaluating skills.

you don't need your degree to train you for your life.

[hr]
It's now who you know, it's who who you know knows

[jennyo]

Well, according to the module booklets for art history, it helps you develop research and analytical writing skills, presentation skills, and visual analysis skills.

I imagine most arts subjects are similar, i.e. they help you develop the ability to think about things in an intelligent manner, and then organise and present it in a similarly intelligent manner.

According to a former teacher, just the fact that you decide to go to university shows that you have a desire to learn and broaden your field of knowledge -- not just by studying but by meeting people, trying different activities, etc. God, I sound like the prospectus now, but I hope you see what I mean about degrees being useful beyond the specific subject.

Also, according to Prophet Tenebrae, you also get to develop your skills as a scrounger, scoundrel and layabout, things that will also come in handy for most jobs

[hr]'Red meat and a bottle of gin' -- Julia Child, when asked to describe her ultimate meal

[meh]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 18:19, 25th Oct 2004:
i have a question.

how do degrees in things like art history, philosophy, history, latin, english etc etc will help you in getting a job? i cannot see how they will possibly help. unlike econ and management, these artsy subjects has absolutely no use at all? so why would people waste their time in studying such things?


In your case, a degree in English certainly wouldn't go amiss.

[NeilSJFC1884]

As i third year student in scotish history ill admit my degree has absolute no value to society whatsoever. However i realise this unlike IR students etc

[The Dude]

I don't quite know how it works here in the UK but in the US you can go to Law School after doing just about any arts subject.

[md25]

Any degree is basically a certificate that says "this person is capable of learning about [subject] to an advanced level". If you wanted a guaranteed job at the end of your studies, you should've done medicine, accountancy, vet sci or something similar with direct relevancy to a specific field of work. Even jobs for which "highly numerate" degrees are usual prerequisites will make an exception for an exceptional arts graduate who has A-level maths.

The study, research and communication skills as well as the self-discipline you learn while doing your degree are as important if not more so to an employer than the subject matter of it. So long as you get a 2:1 or above any St Andrews degree should be good enough for most graduate jobs.

[Wong]

After 25 hours of practicals per day in Honours CS, a degree in medieval history is sounding more and more appealing.

[hr]No tree has branches so foolish as to fight among themselves

[Pender Native]

I'm going to come across as terribly old fashioned and idealistic here but I came to university to because I wanted to learn about my chosen subject. I think that the pursuit of knowledge and understanding is a worthwhile aim in itself, and NOT just an instrumentally valuable stepping stone to that all important career. The world doesn't just need scientists and managers.


[hr]
Yum! Pencils!

[the Empress]

The world needs fewer managers, offices seem to be overburdened with them.

[Guest]

[s]Cain wrote on 01:03, 27th Oct 2004:
because doing a degree is a worthwhile achievement.


and because doing these degrees helps your thinking and evaluating skills.


[s]jennyo wrote on 01:15, 27th Oct 2004:
Well, according to the module booklets for art history, it helps you develop research and analytical writing skills, presentation skills, and visual analysis skills.

I imagine most arts subjects are similar, i.e. they help you develop the ability to think about things in an intelligent manner, and then organise and present it in a similarly intelligent manner.

But then surely a degree like economics or one of the sciences also teaches you these skills (As they do) but also additional skills that are aimed at getting you a job or helping you progress further in your chosen degree? All degrees teach you to analyse, to research, good presentation skills, good writing skills etc, but more "vocational" degrees - economics, maths, chemistry etc - teach additional skills and knowledge as well, and more applicable knowledge at that (ie economics will help you more in everyday life than say the ability to write a wonderful essay on a poet or a past king).

And even if you are going for a straightforward non specific job, eg in a bank or as a manager - who will employers pick: the maths graduate or the english graduate. A daft example but you get the point which is I think the point the original poster was trying to make.

As my mum has said repeatedly about the graduates she works with/looks after in her profession, an awful lot of people come out of uni knowing exactly how to write an essay and pass exams but bugger all about the job they are there to do and have suposedly been learning about for 4 years, to such an extent that apparently a rather large percentage of people are in jobs they are scared of. While I appreciate that english will not take you into the job land economics does I wonder about those who motivate themselves to work by thinking of working in mcdonald's. With an ill chosen degree that may well still happen.

Obvious exceptions are of course those who go into teaching or something similar but I can't help wondering what happens to the hundreds of philosophy, history and english graduates who don't go into teaching - there's not that many degree specific jobs around and like I say, a maths or chemistry student going for a general job will look far more attractive.

Anyway, to each their own I suppose

[the Empress]

History students are one of the most employed graduates. I study history primarily because I'm interested and like to be around people who don't glaze over when I talk about it. If you study a science, and don't like it, what's the point of putting yourself through 4 years of hell? To get yourself a job in an area you hate, making your life miserable forever?
Arts graduates are diverse in their professions, but having a life-long interest/understanding can get you through stressful (though rewarding jobs) like social services/welfare. If you're happy and have interests, chances are you're going to be a good employee. I doubt very much that a degree in sciences is more relevant than an arts degree in ALL jobs (e.g.journalism, social work)!

[rae]

I've done two degrees in English now and last fall headed out into the world to try and put them to use. While the job hunt may be daunting with an Arts degree as you are not specifically tailored to one career path, the diversity can be cool. I've worked in a bookstore, in a sandwich shop - we'll gloss over that one, had interviews with Armani, Clarins, and the Scotsman for a marketing position before taking my current job at the National Library. For all of those, my degree more than prepared me: excellent communications skills, working well to deadlines, proven success in high-stress situations, multitasking, energy, commitment, etc etc.

An education shouldn't be confused with job training. at least, that's what I think.

[Steveo]

It must end in Sc (BSc etc) to be a real degree ;P.

[hr][s]What a beautiful world this will be .... what a glorious time to be free[/s]

[jennyo]

But then surely a degree like economics or one of the sciences also teaches you these skills (As they do) but also additional skills that are aimed at getting you a job or helping you progress further in your chosen degree?


Yes, so if the only point of going to university were to get on a career path, there would be about 3 people in the art history department. And I'd be one of them, because, what the hell, I may not have a clearly defined graduate-career path to a job in management, but some people study subjects because they enjoy them, not because they present the most secure job prospects.

[hr]Don't ask me who's influenced me. A lion is made up of the lambs he's
digested, and I've been reading all my life. -Giorgos Seferis, writer,
diplomat, Nobel laureate (1900-1971)

[Miz Manda]

[s]NeilSJFC1884 wrote on 03:56, 27th Oct 2004:
As i third year student in scotish history ill admit my degree has absolute no value to society whatsoever. However i realise this unlike IR students etc


In my own defense and defense of all IR peopple, I'm perfectly aware that my degree will prepare me for bugger all in the real world.

[hr]
Any act of anti-social insanity is immediately sanctified by the magic word 'charity'. As someone once said, if Hitler had invaded Poland 'for Spina Bifida' then everyone would have just let him get on with it.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Science subjects don't prepare you for the real world - arts subjects do.

[tordenskjold]

I would have thought that a degree in IR gave you a greater understanding of International affairs and processes. If not, then you probably haven't gone to lectures.

[Iain]

so Prophet, quantify that one- why do science subjects not train you for the real world? you come out with logic, an ability to observe, to appreciate the world....etc Well my real point is those doing purely arts are affected by philosophical thoughts directly and I can't help but feel those in science have a broader view, they study the world, but yet they are humans and can still philosophise. Having lived with a mixture of both, I can see the distinction. Not a huge gap but still...

When it comes to getting work, when arts graduates are churning out books and newspapers and television programs; scientists are doing more in the background to keep this world running. Nought wrong with a science degree, it'll get you a job. As the world begins to run down on resources, has to deal with the demands of the third world, pollution, terrorism; you increasingly need the scientists for the technology.

[Steveo]

[s]tordenskjold wrote on 12:05, 28th Oct 2004:
I would have thought that a degree in IR gave you a greater understanding of International affairs and processes. If not, then you probably haven't gone to lectures.


What use is that in the world though, considering how many IR graduates are being churned out?

[hr]
[s]What a beautiful world this will be .... what a glorious time to be free[/s]