National Anthem

[Yeats]

[s]Mr Comedy wrote on 14:17, 4th Mar 2005:
I'm proud to be British, but I am particularly proud to be English!


Can you take a pill for that?

[kas48]

I my mind there is no such thing as being British. That's like saying to someone: "Hey, I'm a European". And don't get me started on the bloody Union Jack.

[penfold]

I think the pill for that is the little black one.

[NeilSJFC1884]

Few good suggestions IF we were going to change the national anthem. Im pretty sure "highland catheral" would be a popular choice, but ive not actually heard any of the lyrics to honest.
Dougie MacLean's "Caladonia" is a great suggestion, although as great as song as it is, dont think it would sound as good with 50,000 folk singing it. Like the comedy idea of "Im gonna be (500 miles)" but unfortunatly its unsuitable.

What about "Scots Wha hae"?
Or, and im surprised nobody has suggested this, "Loch Lomand"?
Anybody whos heard loch lomand being sang at hampden to runrigs live version will understand what an atmosphere this song can achieve.

Anything but a song inspired by English xenophobia in the 17th and 18th centuries!!!

[Iain]

Face it, Flower of Scotland IS the current anthem. Why bother changing it... how many people in Scotland take offence at it? Seriously stop tinckering it's not worth it.

[exnihilo]

[s]Odysseus wrote on 14:10, 4th Mar 2005:
So anyone who doesn't want to be 'British' is a little Scotlander? What a pathetic, ill informed view to hold. We have a sense of identity combined with a sense of nation, how you can dismiss this as narrowmindedness is beyond me.

I didn't say that, try reading. I said that there was a difference between being proud to be British and Scottish and being Scottish but English at heart which is what little Scotlanders always throw at me. I absolutely respect your right not to consider yourself British, I do, but that's my right too. What I despise utterly is Scots whose sense of national identity is almost wholly based on hating the English. I did not accuse you of that, nor did I say it was the only way to be Scottish.

[LonelyPilgrim]

Actually Elisabeth II is Scotland's Queen. The Monarchy is the Scottish Monarchy, as the English Royal Family died out with Elisabeth I. All the monarchs since then have been of the Stuart line.

Of course, that's a technicality, since the banning of Catholics from the thrown and the subsequent Jacobite risings make the whole matter a mess... but the fact is, even if the crown didn't pass to the most direct genetic heir, it did remain with persons of Stuart heritage, however small.

So to me, rabid Scot's nationalists who oppose the 'English' monarchy, make no sense. You ought to embrace the monarchy, and be telling England to get their own dang Crown.

But what do I know. I'm just an American after all and it's not as though my heritage is half Scottish or anything... or that my mother (despite being born and raised in the States) is one of the above mentioned rabid Scot's nationalists who would love nothing more than to nail Elisabeth's head to a pike... *rolls eyes*

As for the Anthem... if you want to do something anti-English you can do better than Flower of Scotland, lovely little song that it is... how about Fire in the Glen, or even Bonnie Charlie's Gone Awa'?

[hr]I sing of arms, and the man...

[Pender Native]

I think the Stuarts ended with the King Charles and the English civil war - hence the laws against catholics ruling, adn the Jacobite rebellions. The present lot are imported from Europe somewhere and are a completely different family. Hanovarians?

[exnihilo]

You're quite wrong. Charles II and James II were Stuarts after Charles I (James II was forced out in favour of Protestant William of Orange, leading to various uprisings by James' descendants). Queen Anne was also a Stuart, but died without issue, hence the German line.

The George's were Hanoverian, but they were related to the Stuarts, not that it mattered as the principle was already established that Parliament could determine the settlement of the Crown by that point.

[flarewearer]

f**k you you lousy wanker. if there's anyone i dislike as a general rule more than the english or the turks, it's Scots who are English at heart. From Edinburgh, perchance?? (no offence to true Scots in Edinburgh)
[/i]

Yes I am from Edinburgh, and if you anything beyond your tartan and shortbread rose-tinted view of Scotland you would realise how mistaken you are.
I am Scottish, from a very long line of Scots, was born in Scotland and have always lived here and I consider myself Scottish. If that doesnt make me a true scot, I don't know what is. I can be sure I certianly know a lot more about the true history of Scotland and the United Kingdom than you do. So what exactly IS your definition of a REAL scot? Do they vote SNP, do they sneer at the english, must I own a Kilt and make sure I eat haggis and drink whisky?
The fact of the matter is that I am a British Citizen and there is nothing wrong and nothing to be ashamed about being proud of my country (not where I'm from.) It has nothing whatsoever to do with being English or "English at heart", I said British you moron, and the sooner you learn to disassociate the two, the better.

[hr]
[s]Have you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow?
You need butter, milk and cheese, and an equilateral chainsaw.[/s]

[exnihilo]

Hear hear!

[kas48]

[s]flarewearer wrote on 19:12, 4th Mar 2005:
f**k you you lousy wanker. if there's anyone i dislike as a general rule more than the english or the turks, it's Scots who are English at heart. From Edinburgh, perchance?? (no offence to true Scots in Edinburgh)


Yes I am from Edinburgh, and if you anything beyond your tartan and shortbread rose-tinted view of Scotland you would realise how mistaken you are.
I am Scottish, from a very long line of Scots, was born in Scotland and have always lived here and I consider myself Scottish. If that doesnt make me a true scot, I don't know what is. I can be sure I certianly know a lot more about the true history of Scotland and the United Kingdom than you do. So what exactly IS your definition of a REAL scot? Do they vote SNP, do they sneer at the english, must I own a Kilt and make sure I eat haggis and drink whisky?
The fact of the matter is that I am a British Citizen and there is nothing wrong and nothing to be ashamed about being proud of my country (not where I'm from.) It has nothing whatsoever to do with being English or "English at heart", I said British you moron, and the sooner you learn to disassociate the two, the better.

[hr]
[s]Have you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow?
You need butter, milk and cheese, and an equilateral chainsaw.[/s]
[/i]



whatever.

[flarewearer]

[s]kas48 wrote on 14:49, 4th Mar 2005:
I my mind there is no such thing as being British. That's like saying to someone: "Hey, I'm a European". And don't get me started on the bloody Union Jack.


No i do want to get you started on the Union Flag, what is wrong with it? Its' an inspired piece of flag design, incorporating the Flags of the two original partners in the Union of the Thrones, combined in 1801 with the cross of St Patrick; thereby representing the majority of the partners in the United Kingdom. Perhaps just a shame Wales didnt get a look in on it...
If you read here, it has quite a fascinating history;

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb-hist.html#evol

[hr]
[s]Have you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow?
You need butter, milk and cheese, and an equilateral chainsaw.[/s]

[flarewearer]

[s]kas48 wrote on 19:22, 4th Mar 2005:
whatever.


i can't think of a way to better that...
so...

/me sticks thumbs to nose and goes NA NAR NEE NAR NA

[hr]
[s]Have you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow?
You need butter, milk and cheese, and an equilateral chainsaw.[/s]

[kas48]

No i do want to get you started on the Union Flag, what is wrong with it? Its' an inspired piece of flag design, incorporating the Flags of the two original partners in the Union of the Thrones, combined in 1801 with the cross of St Patrick; thereby representing the majority of the partners in the United Kingdom. Perhaps just a shame Wales didnt get a look in on it...
If you read here, it has quite a fascinating history;

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb-hist.html#evol

[hr]
[s]Have you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow?
You need butter, milk and cheese, and an equilateral chainsaw.[/s]
[/i]



that reads like you copied it out of a text book. you see, the majority of the scots think that their flag is the saltire, whereas the majority of the english think that their flag is the union jack. does that not tell you something? (try not to be clever!)

[LonelyPilgrim]

[s]kas48 wrote on 19:35, 4th Mar 2005:
that reads like you copied it out of a text book. you see, the majority of the scots think that their flag is the saltire, whereas the majority of the english think that their flag is the union jack. does that not tell you something? (try not to be clever!)


And so? Your point is? A majority of Americans don't know the difference between Ireland and Scotland, does that make them the same? And most of us thought we gained our independence from ENGLAND, rather than the UK, does that means there weren't any Scots fighting us?

Since when, pray tell, does majority OPINION have anything to do with historical truth? The Scottish flag is the Saltire, so there is nothing wrong with thinking that. However, the English flag is not the Union Jack, and anyone who thinks so English, Scottish, or Swahili is mistaken, and wrong, and their opinion on the matter does not count. But honestly, the English folk I know seem to understand perfectly that the flag of England is the St George cross on a white field, so I really don't know where you are getting your notions.

[hr]
I sing of arms, and the man...

[flarewearer]

[s]kas48 wrote on 19:35, 4th Mar 2005:

that reads like you copied it out of a text book.

Well, it is fact, what else would you like it to sound like?

you see, the majority of the scots think that their flag is the saltire, whereas the majority of the english think that their flag is the union jack. does that not tell you something? (try not to be clever!)


Okay, i will forgive the fact that you have just made those "statistics" up on the spot and have no actual evidence to back yourself up. Now here is FACT, this is (Scottish) flag law;

"The Union Jack is the correct flag for all citizens and corporate bodies of the United Kingdom to fly to demonstrate their loyalty and their nationality..."

"The flag of St. Andrew, the patron saint of Scotland. Blue with a white or silver diagonal cross reaching to its edges, this is the correct flag for all Scots or Scottish corporate bodies to fly to demonstrate their loyalty and their Scottish nationality..."

Therefore it is quite acceptable to be partial to either flag. If i was supporting scotland or want to show my scottishness i can use one, and vice versa for my britishness.

As for English people, you only have to look at the St. George's cross mania during the rugby world cup and euro football championships to see that they are quite happy to use the St. George's cross now. Always a good thing that the English have reclaimed their flag from the right wing extemists.

[hr]
[s]Have you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow?
You need butter, milk and cheese, and an equilateral chainsaw.[/s]

[Guest]

[s]flarewearer wrote on 18:53, 3rd Mar 2005:[i]
Well, like it or not, she is our Queen, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.



you are certainly no Scot!

[LonelyPilgrim]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 18:56, 3rd Mar 2005:
[s]flarewearer wrote on 18:53, 3rd Mar 2005:[i]
Well, like it or not, she is our Queen, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.



you are certainly no Scot!


Hey, American here. Message: Grow up. 2nd Message: Learn some real history. 3rd Message: Please, define what makes a Scot in your reality...

[hr]
I sing of arms, and the man...

[kas48]

you just don't get it, do you? your loss not mine - i won't worry about it anymore.

ps: if you're american, stay out of it.