I can't believe the union doorstaff

[Zombie Sheep]

Ok, for the first time in four years, I have a problem with the union security staff. After a couple of polite requests to drink up, and with a large number of people still left in the union, we had our drinks forcibly removed, and we were asked to leave (yes, after the lights had come on). We left, and outside, we were verbally abused by two members of door staff, who also threatened us. We left union property, as requested, and moved to a public area. We were then approached by six members of staff, and threatened, both verbally and with a weapon they had produced from somewhere. So, we asked for their security numbers, and they refused, something I gather they are not able to do. They then brought some cars over, and then left. Needless to say, I shall be visiting both the police station and the union in the morning.

[Mohawk]

zombie, i would be surprised if this is Union doorstaff, rather than S3,


union doorstaff (men/women in blue shirts), of who there were only two of tonight, very rarely get into confrontation, as they are there to see you have a safe enjoyable time, and really don't want to get into trouble as they would be sacked on the spot.

is it possible that it was men in black Jackets (S3)?


as this would be the final nail in their coffin..


go in and complain, i would.


[hr]
Image:www.timewarp.org.uk/Downloads/graphics/rhsline1animated.gif

[Zombie Sheep]

thanks mohawk, I apologise for bringing the union staff into this, I presumed it was them. I didn't realise it was a different group. I shall definately make a complaint. Thanks again.

[white_wolf]

[s]Zombie Sheep wrote on 02:15, 1st Dec 2004:
thanks mohawk, I apologise for bringing the union staff into this, I presumed it was them. I didn't realise it was a different group. I shall definately make a complaint. Thanks again.


Yeah, it's S3 you are talking about, and i am not at all suprised that what you say is true. They enjoy the feeling of power. I personally hate them

[novium]

[s]white_wolf wrote on 02:24, 1st Dec 2004:
[s]Zombie Sheep wrote on 02:15, 1st Dec 2004:[i]
thanks mohawk, I apologise for bringing the union staff into this, I presumed it was them. I didn't realise it was a different group. I shall definately make a complaint. Thanks again.


Yeah, it's S3 you are talking about, and i am not at all suprised that what you say is true. They enjoy the feeling of power. I personally hate them
[/i]

what is s3?

[NeilSJFC1884]

I havent posted on the sinner for a while but came on to post about the same incident. What happened was a group (including me) had their drinks forcibly removed and told to leave. As there were leaving one of the group shouted a comment to a group of bouncers of various establishments, mostly "S3" or whatever it is called i presume, who had been allowed (despite everyone else being chucked out) to continue with their drinks. This group decided to come outside and aided with the some of the door staff from the union threaten the individual. After a member of this hard-man group telling the individual to leave for "his own good" (i shit you not), they continued to hang around for a good while across the road from us, one of whom banging what appeared snooker cue in the his hand in what i assume was to be a threatening manner. The request mentioned above for badge numbers above only served to increase tension between the two parties.
In all honestly the whole thing was a totally insignificant incident which was totally blown out of all proportion by the group of our towns bouncers. There was utterly no need to go after the guy who shouted, who was when all is said in done on his way home. Thankfully it was st.andrews union on a tuesday night and hence didnt lead to much trouble then it otherwise would of in Dundee, Edinburgh or Glasgow. After tonight i assume door work in St.Andrews must be quiet enough for you to go and look for "work"....

[Mohawk]

i've seen it first hand, and have on several occasions felt like saying something.

i'm a student who is constantly in the union through personal and ents reasons (don;t want to bang on about them here as i may get my wirsts slapped) and don't particularly enjoy being told by the hired help to vacate the premises when i have just been in the union for several hours and am in the middle of talking to staff like Bruce T. and barstaff as i normally do, i've most likely not been drinking, and will be stone cold sober, and tired.


okay, rant over, i know a few of s3 are nice guys but the majority are twats.

[Devilzchild]

I work at the Vic - the S3 lot work there too. If u can get them out of St Andrews I won't be crying. They're power crazed dickless wonders! Several times they've refused entry to the vics own staff on friday or saturday nights!
They're a bit too heavy handed and don't do their jobs! They let any girl that shows a bit of leg in without ID but refuse legit ID from any guy under 30!

[Happy-Go-Lucky]

I repeate Novium's question: What is the S3?

[liliputian]

S3 are the security company that the Union, the Vic and the Raisin and a few other pubs hire in. We have to hire in security, and cannot merely use our own door staff due to legal constraints. Soon it'll be law for us to have to hire in security, rather than using our own, anyway.

[hr]i know you want the sin but not the sinner...

[Tweedle-Dum]

[s]liliputian wrote on 09:34, 1st Dec 2004:
S3 are the security company that the Union, the Vic and the Raisin and a few other pubs hire in. We have to hire in security, and cannot merely use our own door staff due to legal constraints. Soon it'll be law for us to have to hire in security, rather than using our own, anyway.


There is more than one security firm in the world.

[hr]
Live by the sword, die by the arrow.

[munchingfoo]

It is all very well to insult the guys, but you will be happy they are their when the punches start flying and it is them sorting it out rather than you getting involved.

Yes the union is quiet, but there is trouble there, sometimes serious. The doorstaff get a lot of hastle at the end of the night. It is the unions responsibility to have no customers left on the premises 15 mins after the bar closes. If the union does not comply witht this then they lose their licence. Something which I am sure none of you would like. The doorstaff get loads of verbal abuse at the end of the night. When they ask people nicely to leave they usually say yes. Some people however make a really big fuss. It is usually people looking down their noses, taking the piss or just utterly refusing. Mostly these people leave just before closing time because they are all ball less but unfortunately the actions of these few put emotions in the doorstaff which causes aggression to other customers. This is wrong but there very few of you out there who would be able to control those emotions.

[Koala Boy]

Didn't on of the doorstaff get his nose broken the other week? If so, you can appreciate why they're being heavy handed.

[hr]You don't need pants
To do the Koala Dance
IMAGE:images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:kD6MwnrIVS0J:www.lovecorner.it/peluches/koala.jpg

[munchingfoo]

Yeah, the town in general is very aggressive at the moment.

[David Bean]

I'm sorry, they're threatening people because others are being aggressive and they get emotional? That's just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Anyone who cannot endure the behaviour of bar-flies at the end of the night when asked to leave without starting to take it out on others shouldn't be in the bar industry period, let alone as a security guard. In fact, I'd venture to suggest that anyone who behaves aggressively under any circumstances - note the meaning of the word 'aggressive' - absolutely must be fired.

Having said that, I have no personal grievance against S3, and a few of its employees are good friends of mine.

[hr]"Fiat justicia ruat coelum (let justice be done though the heavens may fall)" - Judge James Horton (family motto)

[christian_harris]

The problem with S3 is that they attempt to present an image of professionalism, yet they employ random students and neds, and do not give adequate training.

I was a licensed doorman in London for a few years, meaning a series of training courses, a police check, and interview with a member of the council where you wished to work etc etc

Up here, turn up, sy you want a job, and voila you're a doorman...

Something is not quite right about that, based on my experience (and I have had problems with S3 guys before when I have explained to them that they cannot legally do something, for example - needless to say they get arsey and agressive).

[flarewearer]

security staff in the union seem to go through cycles of being low profile and discrete and over the top control-freakery. Ive been there when they havent noticed some underage kid passed out in the main seating area covered in his own vomit, and also when they have had a go at people for moving the chairs around...
However, I think the previous lot (option 1 was it?) were a complete load of cowboys. We paid them to staff an event, and they just stood around and did fuck all. They wouldnt give entry bands to some people, or some gave them out to people without tickets meaning we lost about 100 people's door fee. When a girl got too drunk and passed out, they simply dragged her out and put her on the grass face down. They left her friends to get her in the recovery position and call an ambulance.
Fair enough they have a job to do and im sure they get hassled by drunken folk, but surely the whole point is that they are proffesionals who should turn other cheek and get on with their job, even if someone does have a go at them. Their getitng paid to do that job, they dont have to do it, if they dont like it they should do something else.

[hr]* 9 out of 10 cannibals agree;
"vegetarians taste BETTER"

[Mohawk]

i was just going to add, that the fact that the union would have to hire outside doorstaff in future is false, all we would have to do is train union doorstaff to be acredited, or so i beleive,

[Al]

"It is the unions responsibility to have no customers left on the premises 15 mins after the bar closes"

That is legally not the case. The 15 minute period of grace (or "drinking up time") is from the end of licensed hours and not from the time the bar closes.

[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.

[Rennie]

Ok, thought I should weigh in on this one. I've been an employee of both companies mentioned in this thread since I've been at uni.

Zombie, it seems as though the staff were being over the top with what they did. Frankly, if I was working and someone I was working with tried to do that, I would politely tell them that they were being a fucking idiot. About 6-8 times a night I work, I have insults shouted at me from drunk people I haven;t let in, or had to kick out, for one reason or another. If I went after each one of these people with a snooker cue, I'd soon be in prison. Saying that, I find it hard to believe that they brought a weapon out and threatened you / your friends - it would be an extremely stupid thing to do, and something I've never seen happen while I've worked in St Andrews.

Also, it seems that it wasn't actually the staff in uniform that were causing problems, but it was what you presume to be off-duty staff, or friends of the staff doing it. Or am I wrong - were they staff from other establishments?

You say that the staff are not allowed to refuse to 'give you their numbers'. In fact, there is no law that I have ever been aware of that says you must give your number to someone - and I have asked the police this when I have had to involve them in an escalating situation. They say that the numbers we display are a good idea, as they can help identify staff, but they are not legally neccessary. Scotland does not have a formal security lbill being passed like the one in England and Wales, and until it does, this is the best system to operate.

Mohawk - you really seem to have a bee in your bonnet about S3. You say it would be a 'final nail in the coffin' and so on, who are you to know this?? You also say that the Union doorstaff are there to see you have a safe and enjoytable time - that's EXACTLY the reason why the door security are there as well. We just help with making sure people who shouldn't be in the union don't get in there, and people that should leave the union for breakig rules etc shouldn't be in there. We do this so that people can have a safe and enjoyable night.

You also say you don't appreciate being asked to leave the premises. Why not? The place is shut. Everyone, barring staff who are clearing up etc.. have to leave. If you're doing something for ents like clearing equipment away or so on, fine - but I don't think you're referring to this.

I have in the past put myself into situations that are dangerous, to make sure that the other customers won't be injured / pissed off / etc... I do this because it's what I get paid to do, not because I'm on a power trip. I have never not let a person into a place without a good reason, and I stick to the rules when doing my job (I also make sure I know the rules, so I can quote them to a drunk custimer who is trying to inform me in a non polite way that I'm wrong.)

Christian has a bit of a point, but S3 train all of their staff on a 4 hour course. Some also have first aid qualifications.

Oh, and about the accreditation for staff - the system isn't being introduced in Scotland yet, but if it's the same as England & Wales, it will be along the lines of getting a licence off the council and then paying to do a course, which together will cost around £300 - and this needs to be paid every year. I think the system that most places will operate is that people go out and get the qualifications themselves, and the Union increase the wages to qualified staff, I can't see the union shelling out £300 for each memeber of staff, to see them only work there for around 6 months or so.

Al, the end of licenced hours IS when the bar closes. They are the same time.

BTW I'm not condoning what happened by any means, and I think if you feel strongly you should complain, but the police are not who you should be complaining to - do it to the licenced premises where the situation happened (i.e - the union)