Christian Voice Rides Again (more Christian Bashing)

[The Truth]

Right. Sorry to reenter a stupid conversation, but I can't quite get over the whole mother-hating business. And to counter that whole load of scipture you just tossed out, try this one:

Honour thy father and mother...

I forgot exactly what verse it is, but im fairly confident you would know. Note that there is nothing in the bible that says:
Honour your father and your mother, unless they happen to be catholic, in which case its okay to spit on their grave and then do a little jig as the devil consumes their rotting soul, because boy! but I, the Lord your God, sure do hate those Catholics! How dare they worship christ in their own way as they have been doing for twenty centuries? Damn, they sure got nerves. Anyhow, if your folks just happen to believe EXACTLY as you do, THEN you better honour them. God out.

Anyhow, I haven't seen that verse yet. Perhaps you could kindly quote it in bold for me?
Or just give me a list of random other quotes that supposedly denounce Catholics, that would be fine too.
I wouldn't mind a few more links either, they're great!


*edited because the first post was confusing and riddled with errors, and a disgrace to all who love cheese*
[hr]
May Christ give you the grace to pick up your scattered wits.
-St. Jerome

[The whole thing gets on my nerves]

What I often wonder is that if I was to even accept the existance of God, (the Christian god, at least) why should I worship him? He’s not a very nice person/deity.

As the above post points out, he made us all with free will then tells us if you don’t do exactly what he says, he will send you to hell for eternity.
He discriminates against random groups of people. I'd say that I was more morally advanced than he is. I mean, talk about absolute power corrupting absolutely. He’s worse than Stalin. So even were I to accept his existence, I find no reason to like him, or respect him, except as the biggest kid in the playground.

My view of Christ is that he came down from heaven to save us from God. God doesn’t have to send everybody to hell, he simply chooses to out of petulance: "You didn’t believe in me! That’s not fair!" So instead he sends his only son from heaven down to earth, who then dies (suffering yes, but I'm sure other people in history have suffered as much, if not more) and, wow, goes right back up to heaven, to be with god again. Its hardly a sacrifice on god's part is it? He doesn’t lose his son for ever. he gets him back home in heaven after about 30 years. Its like sending his son to summer camp.

I realise I may have offended people here, but please could somebody tell me some answers to the above?

[The Truth]

[s]Unregisted User The whole thing gets on my nerves wrote on 23:22, 2nd Feb 2005:
What I often wonder is that if I was to even accept the existance of God, (the Christian god, at least) why should I worship him? He’s not a very nice person/deity.


Your are obviously confused. The christian God is all-loving and all benevolent.
He made laws so that his people wouldn't create havock unto themselves. Anarchy really isn't all its made out to be, trust me.

The hateful god you refer to is Paul's personal god, who likes to hang out in dark corners spitting on everybody who doesnt think like Paul. There is a bigg difference, really.



[hr]
May Christ give you the grace to pick up your scattered wits.
-St. Jerome

[Rob Milsom]

[s]The Truth wrote on 21:12, 3rd Feb 2005:
Right. Sorry to reenter a stupid conversation, but I can't quite get over the whole mother-hating business. And to counter that whole load of scipture you just tossed out, try this one:
[i]Honour thy father and mother...

- Yeah, I'd say that was fairly important, what with being the fifth commandment and all (Exodus 20: 12, and emphasised by Jesus in the example of the Rich Young Man, Matthew 19: 19). Before anyone starts flinging these about, they might like to consider the second part of the verse - 'love thy neighbour as thyself'.

[exnihilo]

But selective reading has been the mainstay of this thread, why stop now?

And, remember, folks, God abominates polycotton shirts too.

[Paul]

[s]exnihilo wrote on 21:34, 3rd Feb 2005:
But selective reading has been the mainstay of this thread, why stop now?

And, remember, folks, God abominates polycotton shirts too.


That's not true - he simply says. "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee." - Leviticus 19:19

There is no mention of an abomination here.


[hr]
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil." - Proverbs 3:5-7

[Rob Hearn]

*sigh*

Yes, but such garments do come upon thee, and I, and thine, all the fucking time. What's with the 'thou shalt not' anyway? Why not? That's a commandment - or a prediction - that nobody seems to pay much attention to, isn't it? How frightfully blashphemous of the world.

Jesus fucking holy cuntchrist, Paul, you are a fruitcake and a half.

[Paul]

[s]The Truth wrote on 21:19, 3rd Feb 2005:
Your are obviously confused. The christian God is all-loving and all benevolent.
He made laws so that his people wouldn't create havock unto themselves. Anarchy really isn't all its made out to be, trust me.

The hateful god you refer to is Paul's personal god, who likes to hang out in dark corners spitting on everybody who doesnt think like Paul. There is a bigg difference, really.


First, the Christian God is not “all-loving”. And to show that this is not only my knowledge of God, here is a quotation from The Larger Catechism, part of the Westminster Confession of Faith drawn up by the Assembly of Divines at Westminster and approved by the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland:

“Q13. What hath God especially decreed concerning angels and men?
A. God, by an eternal and immutable decree, out of his mere love, for the praise of his glorious grace, to be manifested in due time, hath elected some angels to glory; and in Christ, hath chosen some men to eternal life, and the means thereof: and also, according to his sovereign power, and the unsearchable counsel of his will, (whereby he extendeth or withholdeth favour as he pleaseth), hath passed by and foreordained the rest to dishonour and wrath, to be for their sin inflicted, to the praise of the glory of his justice.”

Similar words can be read in Chapter III of the Westminster Confession of Faith.

As to why he gave the law, here are extracts from the Westminster Confession of Faith again.

“Chapter XIX Of the Law of God
V. The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God, the Creator, who gave it. …
VI. Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life, informing of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts, and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin; together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience.”

Westminster Confession of Faith can be read in full on-line here: http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_w ... ndexf.html

The Larger Catechism can be read here: http://www.reformed.org/documents/wlc_w ... rames.html

And other documents of interest can be found here: http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html


[hr]
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil." - Proverbs 3:5-7

[Rilla]

[s]Rob Hearn wrote on 23:22, 3rd Feb 2005:
Jesus fucking holy cuntchrist, Paul, you are a fruitcake and a half.


Amen to that.




The only annoying thing is that Paul probably sees himself as some kind of Christian martyr, suffering on God's behalf in his quest to convert all of us.
One thing I don't understand though - what's the point converting if you're destined to go to hell anyway - ie if you're not one of the chosen ones.
I am quite ignorant - I am only a lowly Roman Catholic after all.


[hr]
Blood is a cleansing and sanctifying thing, and the nation that regards it as the final horror has lost its manhood... there are many things more horrible than bloodshed, and slavery is one of them!

[Paul]

[s]Rob Hearn wrote on 23:22, 3rd Feb 2005:
*sigh*



"Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." - Exodus 20:7



[hr]
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil." - Proverbs 3:5-7

[Paul]

[s]The Truth wrote on 21:12, 3rd Feb 2005:
Right. Sorry to reenter a stupid conversation, but I can't quite get over the whole mother-hating business. And to counter that whole load of scipture you just tossed out, try this one:
[i]Honour thy father and mother...
[/i]

You clearly missed the following quotation from that post (perhaps because it was not in bold?):
“And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.” - Luke 9:59-60

Strange as it may seem, I can still honour my mother and father though, as long as there is no conflict with the word of God. And when there is, I have to choose Christ. That is the meaning of this verse: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” – Luke 14:26

[s]The Truth wrote on 21:12, 3rd Feb 2005:
Anyhow, I haven't seen that verse yet. Perhaps you could kindly quote it in bold for me?
Or just give me a list of random other quotes that supposedly denounce Catholics, that would be fine too.
I wouldn't mind a few more links either, they're great!

Pleased to oblige:
An office-bearer in the church is to be a married man and a father, not celibate, as with Rome:

“A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) … Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. ” – I Timothy 3:2-5 & 12

“Pope” comes from the Italian for “father” and the pope would be called “Holy Father”. The priests would also be called “father”, but the Bible says:
“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.” – Matthew 23:9
And Jesus calls God Holy Father in his prayer in John 17!

“And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.” – John 17:11

Rome calls Mary, the Queen of Heaven. But the Bible does not call Mary the Queen of Heaven. In fact, the idol known as Queen of Heaven rouses God to anger:

“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.” – Jeremiah 7:18

But then, Rome is full of idols, in contravention of:

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.” - Exodus 20:4-6

Many, many more examples could be provided, but I hope this is sufficient for you to be going on with.

[hr]
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil." - Proverbs 3:5-7

[quarterstaff]

LOL@paul.

so much for the proddystant's belief that the Bible is the ONLY source of knowledge of God.

the whole POINT of proddystantism was that it returns to the Bible, ignoring all the dogma and hocus-pocus that Church hypocracy and politics had built up around the cult of christ.

and now you are quoting non-biblical references?!

lol@you.

[Paul]

[s]quarterstaff wrote on 00:14, 4th Feb 2005:
LOL@paul.

so much for the proddystant's belief that the Bible is the ONLY source of knowledge of God.

the whole POINT of proddystantism was that it returns to the Bible, ignoring all the dogma and hocus-pocus that Church hypocracy and politics had built up around the cult of christ.

and now you are quoting non-biblical references?!

lol@you.



Thanks for keeping me right, QS. I was seduced there into using a bit of variety and quoting the words of man.

I will just have to do that post again, using the Word of God this time.



[hr]
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil." - Proverbs 3:5-7

[Rob Hearn]

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain

Yes I fucking shall.

[Manic23]

What point are you trying to make?

[Eliot Wilson]

[s]Paul wrote on 00:14, 4th Feb 2005:
“A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) … Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. ” – I Timothy 3:2-5 & 12


I just know I'm going to regret this, but... could not that equally validly be read as meaning that a bishop cannot marry, since he is - watch for the metaphor, folks - married to the Church, and therefore should avoid the inevitable conflict between his duty to his family (were he to have one) and his duty to his flock?

[hr]
Bill and Ted beat the Grim Reaper at Twister

Bill: "You played very well, Death, especially with your totally heavy Death robes."

Death: "Don't patronise me."

[Manic23]

Oh for the love of Jesus don't get him started again!

[Eliot Wilson]

I rarely do anything for the love of Jesus.

[hr]Bill and Ted beat the Grim Reaper at Twister

Bill: "You played very well, Death, especially with your totally heavy Death robes."

Death: "Don't patronise me."

[The Truth]

[s]Paul wrote on 00:14, 4th Feb 2005:
You clearly missed the following quotation from that post:
“And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.” - Luke 9:59-60
Strange as it may seem, I can still honour my mother and father though, as long as there is no conflict with the word of God. And when there is, I have to choose Christ. That is the meaning of this verse: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” – Luke 14:26

Right, perhaps you should read the bible before you quote it?
Jesus gives reverence to the dead several times, and promotes love of family as well. the quote from Luke was not advice for his disiples nor anything JHC even remotely encouraged: rather it was the PRICE of following him. But it will cost you nothing to not pay respect to the dead.
The second quote means nothing of sort that you assign to it. It means the same as the first: he is refering to the cost of being a disciple, about picking up the cross.
If you used these verses as incentives to go packing into the wilderness, then so be it. As it is, you didnt. The issue for you isn't about christ, it is about your mother's faith. Big difference buddy.


“A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) … Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. ” – I Timothy 3:2-5 & 12

As mentioned above, the church IS the bride of the clergy, and the congregration their children in the faith. A man cannot at the same time be completly devoted both to his God and family, as exemplified by your quarls with your dear mum.

“Pope” comes from the Italian for “father” and the pope would be called “Holy Father”. The priests would also be called “father”, but the Bible says:
“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.” – Matthew 23:9
And Jesus calls God Holy Father in his prayer in John 17!

Shit. So thats basically anyone that has ever had a dad thats going to hell. Notice that the verse continues to go on and condem the use of the word "teacher". So that would take care of the rest of the populace.

and while your at it, take notice of the begining of the chapter (still Matthew 23).
"then Jesus told the crowds: '... do not follow their (Pharises) example. Their words are bold but their deeds are few...'"
Which would be advice you should take to heart, man of many words (and bold to, if take the pun;-) And Jesus there also appraises deeds--much as the works that your Catholic brethern seem to be so found of.


Rome calls Mary, the Queen of Heaven. But the Bible does not call Mary the Queen of Heaven.
But then, Rome is full of idols, in contravention of:

First, I has never seen (nor heard) any Catholic source use the phrase "the Queen of Heaven". So if Rome calls Mary such, they obviously arn't making a point of it. As far as idols go, Rome supports no such thing. Relics perhaps, but that is a different story, and certainly not "idols".



As long as we are going to be quoting excessively, here we go in the wisdom of the word of the Lord:

"He who mistreats his father, or drives away his mother, is a worthless and disgraceful son." PROVERBS 19:26

[CrisisLoan]

And the beereth was spilteth and the punter took much offence and askedeth, why did you spill my pinteth, and the punter did reply, because i am a sinner, and the punter did reply, i will forgive you.





"If you by me another pint"



Quote taken from pub politics by J . R Hartley