Why are so many people in St Andrews conservative?

[Mr Comedy]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 12:59, 15th Mar 2005:
right wing conservatives are a bunch of elitest c*nts, which is what st andrews is full of.


It's informed discussion like this I really love about the Sinner.

[Zombie Sheep]

Its more unregistered users, i'd be happy to call you elitest c*nts if i felt it necessary!

[Bitterandtwisted]

"No, because the deceased has already paid tax on his/her savings, which were created out of taxed income/dividends."

It's not really the deceased that stands to benefit or lose here. It's their offspring. Why should they have an inalienable right to freeload off the success of others?

"The left hate inheritance because it provides an incentive for life long hard work"

Bollocks. If you're from a wealthy family it encourages you to swan around doing nothing while you wait for Daddy to snuff it.

"why the hell shouldn't I be able to leave my wealth to people without the state taking an enourmous chunk out of it.”

The same can be said of any tax. Of course, I'd like to live tax free but that ain't gonna happen. I don't get to decide whether some of my income gets siphoned off by the government. How is this any better than inheritance tax?


[hr]I let my mind wander and it didn't come back.

[Ga]

On the subject of inheritance tax, it is the primary means by which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And, using this considrable wealth acumulated, the rich will then make the one major flaw in the whole capatilistic system: Use thier money to maintain there postion by making sure the poor stay poor. A good example of such a system is the tax breaks for the rich, as seen in america, or subsidising private healthcare, as the current conservitive party.

Quite frankly, if you leave more than £250,000 on death you deserve to be left with nothing more, never mind 50%.

Or do you want to be in the shadow of your Daddy all your life?

[hr]If everything in life had a point, life would be pointless

[the Empress]

Can't the rich partially avoid inheritance tax by buying woodlands before they die? Then money could either be generated by utilising the timbre or selling it on by descendants. The rich are probably pretty good at scamming the system anyway.

[hr]Nobody knew what kind of magic spell to use, slime, snail or puppy dog tail . .

[Stuart]

[s]Ga wrote on 12:10, 16th Mar 2005:

Quite frankly, if you leave more than £250,000 on death you deserve to be left with nothing more, never mind 50%.


Erm, the average price of a house in the UK is £162,000.

Oh, and regarding earlier posts, I'm not involved in a power struggle.

[Stuart]

Sorry, posted twice.

[the Empress]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 15:47, 15th Mar 2005:
[s]Bitterandtwisted wrote on 14:38, 15th Mar 2005:[i]
Why the hatred of inherritance tax? surely unearned wealth should be taxed at least as much as earned?

No, because the deceased has already paid tax on his/her savings, which were created out of taxed income/dividends.
The left hate inheritance because it provides an incentive for life long hard work; why the hell shouldn't I be able to leave my wealth to people without the state taking an enourmous chunk out of it.

The current rules are absurd - you can care for a parent or granparent for the last years of their lives and, if you are left their house, you are likely to be forced to sell it to pay the tax. But if, aged 90, you go to vegas and marry a stripper and die a week later, they can inherit tax free... where the hell is the sense in that?
[/i]

Old people should go and spend their money. It's theirs. When I'm 90, and if I'm not stuck in a care home drooling, I'm going on a massive spending spree. After raising a family or working all their lives, its time for a little them time. Go tour the world pensioners that can afford it! Let your snot-nosed grandkids sort themselves out.

[hr]
Nobody knew what kind of magic spell to use, slime, snail or puppy dog tail . .

[Fionnlagh]

[s]Ga wrote on 12:10, 16th Mar 2005:
On the subject of inheritance tax, it is the primary means by which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And, using this considrable wealth acumulated, the rich will then make the one major flaw in the whole capatilistic system: Use thier money to maintain there postion by making sure the poor stay poor. A good example of such a system is the tax breaks for the rich, as seen in america, or subsidising private healthcare, as the current conservitive party.

Quite frankly, if you leave more than £250,000 on death you deserve to be left with nothing more, never mind 50%.

Or do you want to be in the shadow of your Daddy all your life?


Sorry, but I disagree. Put it this way: you want your children to have every opportunity in life, so you work hard to provide as much as possible for them. Who has the right to tell you that you are not entitled to make sure your loved ones are cared for when you no longer can? The money has already been taxed when you earned it, it'll be taxed when it's spent, why should it be taxed a 3rd time?

Incidentally, I am something of a lefty (by this place's standards at least), I will never vote tory, i despise their plans for the NHS (as I do this hellish right wing pretending to be left wing labour that we currently have), I support the 50% tax bands of the LDs, and inheritance tax is very unlikely to affect me, short of a family member winning the lottery, or touch wood, them dying before they can spend their savings in retirement. But I still think it's wrong

[Steveo]

Quoting exnihilo from 10:52, 16th Mar 2005
A point I made in a debate, I was sitting there at my advanced age, being told by 18 and 19 year old's of the iniquity of Thatcher's government. A government they would have been barely conscious of. I

Please, just because one does not live through events, does not mean one can not comment. If one reads abotu the past, one learns about the past. It was me that you heard speaking about Thatcher in that debate.

[hr]

[s]Strangers passing in the street....by chance two seperate glances meet[/s]

[Fully Collapsed]

[s]tordenskjold wrote on 11:07, 16th Mar 2005:
At the end of the day as my Dad always says when people complain about Thatcher. "If it was wrong to what she did and close all those mines then they would have opened them again by now." If past governments were SO bad surely the ever so enlightened one we live under now would be able to reverse these things?




Whilst it was a good decision both economically and environmentally to shut the mines (and this coming from someone who originates from West Yorkshire) it is still true that Labour have had to work hard to rectify the problems caused by the Conservatives.

Lack of investment in public services has come to light now and it is Labour that have to deal with it (and get the blame).

Also levels of unemployment and inflation are at record lows (contrast the Thatcher years) - the economy of the UK is at it's strongest for decades, and this is mainly down to the good work of Gordon Brown.

Incidentally, how many of the people on here share their political views with their parents? I will freely admit to being brought up in a left-wing environment and this is surely the greatest influence upon my political beliefs, even though i won't be voting Labour in May as my parents will.

[Ga]

[s]Stuart wrote on 12:27, 16th Mar 2005:
Erm, the average price of a house in the UK is £162,000.


Exactly! More than enought for the avrage person to keep thier house (however, from personal experiance, this is never the case, the house is sold and the children get devide it up each, because they already have a house of thier own). And even after that, you have £88,000!!! To give you an idea of just how much money that is, it is roughtly saving every peney you ever earn for 3.5 years on an avrage wage. 3.5 years! 3.5!!!!

Any your complaining!!!

[hr]
If everything in life had a point, life would be pointless

[themushroomgod]

Let's face it - the better - off members of society have a moral obligation to help and better the lives of the less well off in society. That's why the rich get taxed more. What's more, everyone has a right to an equal chance in life, so surely a best case scenario would be to ban inheritance altogether, and leave the deseaced's possesions to the state? Forward, the brave new world!

[hr]Ooh! A Monkey!

[tordenskjold]

I would like to see the state of this country had the Thatcher government not done what it did in the 80's.

[The Cellar Bar]

Before Thatcher came to power about 75% of all income wa taken "home" by about 25% of the population
During Thatchers years that changed to about 85% of income being taken home by 15% of the working population.
Now, thanks to Son of Thatcher, more than 90% of all earned income is being taken home by less than 8% of the poulation.

At the same time, their contribution to taxes overall has dropped from about 25% to less than 10%. It's a nonsense to believe that the "rich" make an inordinate contribution to this society in terms of tax. Their contribution has dwindled over the years. And now nearly 90% of all taxable revenues are "contributed" by that part of the population currently "sharing" 10% of all earned income. Put another way, with an estimated 21 million tax payers right now, fewer than 2 million people take home the lion's share of what is earned.

The same goes for "indirect" taxation. In any given quarter, the major corporations are in default to the government in terms of VAT payments to the tune of £24 billion. They aren't pursued for this. They are invariably honoured and/or elevated to positions in Government as a reward for large contributions to the Labour Party. £24 billion equates to about a third of our annual education bill or NHS bill. Can you imagine the kind of society we could live in if those SOB's were pursued for what they are legally obliged to deliver?

As for inheritance tax, basically if anyone knocks their pan out over their working lives, they should be entitled to pass on any benefit to their children. They do that through the course of their working lives in terms of roofs over heads, food on the table and the rest. The Labour Party used to talk of "benefitting from the efforts of hand and mind". Bliar shafted that well and truly.

[Stuart]

[s]Ga wrote on 12:46, 16th Mar 2005:
[s]Stuart wrote on 12:27, 16th Mar 2005:[i]
Erm, the average price of a house in the UK is £162,000.


Exactly! More than enought for the avrage person to keep thier house (however, from personal experiance, this is never the case, the house is sold and the children get devide it up each, because they already have a house of thier own). And even after that, you have £88,000!!! To give you an idea of just how much money that is, it is roughtly saving every peney you ever earn for 3.5 years on an avrage wage. 3.5 years! 3.5!!!!

Any your complaining!!!

[hr]
If everything in life had a point, life would be pointless
[/i]

What I was trying to say is that because the average price of a house has gone up by around £100,000 in the past decade, more and more people are being stung by inheritance tax, as the value of their houses exceed the £240,000 threshold. What was designed as a tax on the wealthy, is now hurting more and more people.

[Pender Native]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 15:47, 15th Mar 2005:


The left hate inheritance because it provides an incentive for life long hard work;

What do the left have against lifelong hard work?

[hr]
'I like to listen to a man who likes to talk. Whoops! Sawdust and Treacle, put that in your herring and smoke it!' - quote from the Bursar in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books. Hope that clears up any confusion as to my personal tastes!

[Rilla]

I cannot stand conservative people. They swan around thinking they can acheive anything cos of who their father is or something.
This is my personal experience anyway. I have had sooooooo many bloody rich yah students come and offer me MONEY to do their work for them. hah! they think they can bloody well buy their degrees, and probably anything else they want. It's the left wing students (in my experience) that actually take an interest in their study and work hard and have an aim in life besides making enough money.

Yes this is a big generalisation.


Basically "conservative" to me = KK/GIG/arrogant twat.

[Ian McFarlane]

I will never vote tory, i despise their plans for the NHS.

Do you therefore disagree with the Conservatives' pledge to outspend Labour on the NHS.?

[Fionnlagh]

[s]Ian McFarlane wrote on 14:31, 16th Mar 2005:
[i]
I will never vote tory, i despise their plans for the NHS.

Do you therefore disagree with the Conservatives' pledge to outspend Labour on the NHS.?
[/i]



no, but then I despise Labour's plans as well. The tory plan of subsidising private care does however fill me with extreme dread, on a fundamental level, as well as a practical one. Likewise, I find Labour's emphasis on choice on service providing hospital immaterial, who cares what hospital you get to go to if they're all crap?

But the tories scare me the most