Why would anyone in their right mind vote Conservative?

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Don't forget that when Tony hands the baton over to Gordon, he's going to take his tax and spend attitude to a whole new level. That'll be how he runs/ruins the economy.

[hr]IMAGE:www.btinternet.com/~brother.war/white10-2.gif

[Rufus]

I can only speak for myself, but my disinclination to vote Tory stems from a repulsion for all things Conservative that growing up in Scotland imbued in me from a young age.

So, though I am tempted to give them my vote, it almost feels like I would be betraying something good and pure by doing so.

To vote for the Conservatives is to vote for the dark side in a sense.

Akin to choosing Mr Willoughby over Colonel Brandon.

[hr]

I love you all.

[grousefanatic]

Quoting Rilla from 11:55, 15th Apr 2005
Bloody foreigners. Coming in and taking our jobs and social security.
And not learning English properly. And causing crime.
Anything I've missed out?

The reintroduction of previously contained diseases, like TB, into the country, so in the end, these bloody foreigners will kill us all with their diseases

That was part of a Daily Mail article a year or so ago, which my Mum pointed out to me. She's special, my Mum. So's the Daily Mail, come to think of it.

You could just ensure everyone is innoculated against it. I think we should worry more about MRSA or whatever it is than TB.

Anyhoo, back to gobbets ...

[hr]

veni vidi nates calce concidi - i came, i saw, i kicked ass

[flarewearer]

Quoting Jerry from 06:21, 15th Apr 2005
Let's see...

- 'tougher school discipline' => smacking students, huh?

Smacking the little shits would earn my vote

[hr]

[s]It's 106 miles to Chicago. We've got a full tank of gas and half a pack of cigarettes. It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses. Hit it.[/s]
http://www.magnificentoctopus.com/

[Intolerant Bastard]

It is pretty rich to have Europe telling us about human rights. Repeal the HRA.

[pelopidas]

Labour’s performance on the Economy

1)The recession in the early nineties was as I previously stated in another thread caused by the ERM, the Labour party had exactly the same policy on the ERM as the tories – in fact were keener on it than the tories. What was remarkable was the way the british economy recovered so quickly from it – due to conservative policies.

2)When the Labour party won in May 1997, the economy did not become successful overnight – the tories did the groundwork.

3)The Public Sector Borrowing Requirement was reducing under the tories – the Labour party initially followed tory spending plans – until 1999 really, and the PSBR was reduced at a linear rate. In 2001 government borrowing started to rocket.

4)1 million jobs have been lost in manufacturing in the 8 years since Labour took over – that is more than were lost under 18 years of Conservative government.

5)The Real rate of unemployment in this country is 7million. That is the number of people of working age whose sole source of income is the state – this figure does not include pensioners or students – this is the highest it has ever been. There are 2.5m people claiming benefits for stress related illness – the govt admits that at least 1m of these 2.5m should be working. The govts claims on unemployment are based on the unemployment benefit claimant count – many of these people have been transferred to the more lucrative stress benefits. The figures have been doctored.

6)Private borrowing in 1997 stood at approximately 500 billion a year – in 2003 private borrowing stood at 1.1 trillion – in 6 years it has more than doubled. The “healthy” economy has been based on retail and government sector expansion, which has been financed by borrowing. At some point this money has to be paid back. Private borrowing has to started to drop off, govt borrowing continues to grow – instead of tax rises – taxes have to rise at some point.

7)National Insurance which is paid at the same time as Income tax in the Pay As You Earn (PAYE) system has risen by 1% - it is effectively the same as income tax. The Labour party refuse to say that they will not increase National Insurance – it is equivalent to refusing to say they will not increase income tax – in other words they will.

8)The housing market is at the top of its cycle – at the moment it is plateauing out. It is due for a fall.

9)The privatisation of the Bank of England which was Gordon Brown’s “masterstroke”, was not Gordon’s idea – it had long been muted. In 1996 the tory backbencher Nick Budgen who sat on the Treasury Select Committee proposed an ambitious private members bill to privatise it. Neither Gordon Brown or Tony Blair voted for it. The 1996 bill was the blueprint for the 1997 privatisation act.

10) the Labour MP Frank Fields (former labour pensions minister) has said: "in 1997 Britain had the best pension provision in Europe. Now we have the weakest". This is due partially to Gordon Brown's stealth tax on pensions.

[novium]

I see that this sort of brilliant political analysis is not limited to my side of the pond (as they say).

Quoting Jerry from 06:21, 15th Apr 2005
Let's see...

- 'tougher school discipline' => smacking students, huh?
- 'charge interest on student loans' => great, now we'll never get past this bloody burden; we'll just drown in our debts.
- 'repeal hunting ban' => legalise fox hunting? how insensitive and arrogant can one be to other forms of life?
- 'repeal Human Rights Act' => excuse me, but I want my rights and freedom and ENJOY my life.
- 'oppose banning incitement to religious hatred' => encourage xenophobia, racism and hatred, leading to ongoing blind ignorance and segregation between communities? OH PLEASE.. we aren't cavemen no more; this isn't the bloody 20th century. can't we all just get along?
- 'Reservations over equalities' => bloody elitests...the 'lower class people' are people too you know; they have wants and feelings as much as the higher classes. stop looking down on them.

'Vote Conservative'?? Yeah right, what a bloody joke.

Conservative < worthless shite.

[hr]

I'll read to you here, save your eyes
you'll need them, your boat is at sea;
your anchor is up, you've been swept away & the greatest of teachers won't hesitate to leave you there, by yourself, chained to fate

[big_phil]

How can anyone vote labour? They took us to war under false pretenses, taxes have gone up year after year (as always with labour), the NHS has got worse not better, their immigration policies a joke, they introduced top-up fees after stating in their last manifesto they wouldn't. I could go on but why bother. Surely you people aren't stupid enough to vote for labour after all that. The only thing they have got right is to ban fox hunting.

[sparkler]

Quoting Newty from 13:37, 15th Apr 2005

Quoting Stuart from 11:38, 15th Apr 2005
Cleaner hospitals

I think they actually said they were going to bring in matrons, who I imagine must be equipped with magic wands. There's a lot more to decreasing hospital-acquired infection than just bringing in another layer of staff and creeping privatisation of the NHS.

Cleaning hospitals is not going to get rid of the alarming increase in hospital acquired infections that easily. The damage has been done over a few decades by doctors and physicians handing out antibiotics for the slightest cold when they were unneeded and of no benefit to these viral illnesses. MRSA has developed therefore to poor medical practice and spread due to poor hygiene of the medical staff (such as not washing hands between seeing patients). Cleaning hospitals may slow the rate of infection but it will not completely stop it. Labour is guilty of trying to give the impression that the MRSA epidemic in hospitals is under control when it really isn't at all. If the Conservatives would be any more honest about the situation is questionable.

[hr]

Real revolution starts at learning. If you're not angry, you're not paying attention.

[Timson]

Quoting sparkler from 17:55, 15th Apr 2005

Quoting Newty from 13:37, 15th Apr 2005

Quoting Stuart from 11:38, 15th Apr 2005
Cleaner hospitals

I think they actually said they were going to bring in matrons, who I imagine must be equipped with magic wands. There's a lot more to decreasing hospital-acquired infection than just bringing in another layer of staff and creeping privatisation of the NHS.

Cleaning hospitals is not going to get rid of the alarming increase in hospital acquired infections that easily. The damage has been done over a few decades by doctors and physicians handing out antibiotics for the slightest cold when they were unneeded and of no benefit to these viral illnesses. MRSA has developed therefore to poor medical practice and spread due to poor hygiene of the medical staff (such as not washing hands between seeing patients). Cleaning hospitals may slow the rate of infection but it will not completely stop it. Labour is guilty of trying to give the impression that the MRSA epidemic in hospitals is under control when it really isn't at all. If the Conservatives would be any more honest about the situation is questionable.

[hr]

Real revolution starts at learning. If you're not angry, you're not paying attention.

As I'm doing a report on MRSA I might as well have a say. (personal opinion of course =D)
I completely agree with the first half of what Staurt has said, matrons are not going to solve the problem, nor do I expect to dramatically cut the prevalence. However it will give certain individuals (Mr Blair and Mr Howard) what has to be done to begin combat this pathogen. What pisses me off is the fact that the media are sayig something has to be done now, which is a grandioso misconception. What can be done immediately?
As for the Tories I find it quite amusing that they're trying to solve all the worlds problems in just 5 years...Christ half of them won't be looked at until 10 years down the line, regarding they get in...Delusions of grandeur!
Frankly Michael Howard is not the solution to the Tory problem, more the be all and end all of it. Plain and simple he's a Thatcherite, one of the old guard and his opinions are like that...Remember Major? He promised the world and delivered sod all. This idea is continuously reflected in the majority of the Tories in St Andrews, they are stuck in the past. This is aimed at them, how many of Howards' promises do you personally think he would deliver without the UK going into a recession (something that the Tories are quite famous for doing). Remember The past doesn't go away

[hr]

Up with the Albanians!

[Humphrey]

Quoting big_phil from 17:30, 15th Apr 2005
The only thing they have got right is to ban fox hunting.

Sorry to shatter any illusions you may have but they haven't exactly banned it. All they did was produce an extremely badly drafted bill in which many forms of hunting foxes are still legal and many loopholes can be found in the legislation. Its business as usual I'm afraid. I just enjoy sitting back and watching both sides continue to antagonise each other. If that's labour's greatest achievement then its been a pretty shoddy two terms.

[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[Guest]

Quoting Bitterandtwisted from 12:59, 15th Apr 2005
owning your own house is a privaledge.

And going to university isn't? Spending 4 years 'studying' history is not a right, especially when you consider how much of the student loan is spent on booze.

[Bitterandtwisted]

Quoting from 13:23, 15th Apr 2005

Quoting Bitterandtwisted from 12:59, 15th Apr 2005
owning your own house is a privaledge.

And going to university isn't? Spending 4 years 'studying' history is not a right, especially when you consider how much of the student loan is spent on booze.

In reality, yes. Education is mainly for the rich. I never said education was a right - as we have no written constitution, it is arguable we have no fundamental rights - I merely said it should be. Are you arguing that only the children of the wealthy should be given the chance to learn about the world and improve their station in life? Perhaps you feel nostalgia for a golden age when the peasants knew their place? I don't.

[hr]

I let my mind wander and it didn't come back.

[Bitterandtwisted]

Quoting from 13:23, 15th Apr 2005

Quoting Bitterandtwisted from 12:59, 15th Apr 2005
owning your own house is a privaledge.

And going to university isn\'t? Spending 4 years \'studying\' history is not a right, especially when you consider how much of the student loan is spent on booze.

In reality, yes. Education is mainly for the rich. I never said education was a right - as we have no written constitution, it is arguable we have no fundamental rights - I merely said it should be. Are you arguing that only the children of the wealthy should be given the chance to learn about the world and improve their station in life? Perhaps you feel nostalgia for a golden age when the peasants knew their place? I don't.

[hr]

I let my mind wander and it didn't come back.


[hr]

I let my mind wander and it didn't come back.

[elvis]

I agree with what Timson said regarding Michael Howard. I think they\'d be better off with someone else, not one of the \'old guard\'. Howard\'s association with previous Tory administration does him of the Conservatives no favours - it\'s the one line of attack that Blair goes for against Howard.

Especially during Prime Minister\'s Questions; Blair\'s whole strategy in defending accusations from Howard is \"Well let me quote the right hon. gentleman from when he was Home Secretary in the last Tory Government...\" (and usually something follows that makes Howard look like a big hypocrite).

Simply because of this single line of attack, Blair would very often get the better of Howard in PMQs (at least until the very last one - I don\'t know if you guys saw it - Howard absolutely slaughtered Blair. It was wonderful!)

My take on it is that they need someone a bit younger, perhaps, and someone without associations with previous Tory government (which despite what the Conservatives amongst you might think, is not perceived by many people to be a positive thing). Oliver Letwin, for argument\'s sake, could be one candidate. He was elected in 1997.

[elvis]

I agree with what Timson said regarding Michael Howard. I think they\\\'d be better off with someone else, not one of the \\\'old guard\\\'. Howard\\\'s association with previous Tory administration does him of the Conservatives no favours - it\\\'s the one line of attack that Blair goes for against Howard.

Especially during Prime Minister\\\'s Questions; Blair\\\'s whole strategy in defending accusations from Howard is \\\"Well let me quote the right hon. gentleman from when he was Home Secretary in the last Tory Government...\\\" (and usually something follows that makes Howard look like a big hypocrite).

Simply because of this single line of attack, Blair would very often get the better of Howard in PMQs (at least until the very last one - I don\\\'t know if you guys saw it - Howard absolutely slaughtered Blair. It was wonderful!)

My take on it is that they need someone a bit younger, perhaps, and someone without associations with previous Tory government (which despite what the Conservatives amongst you might think, is not perceived by many people to be a positive thing). Oliver Letwin, for argument\\\'s sake, could be one candidate. He was elected in 1997.

[Elvis]

Sorry for the double posts guys, apparently I "do not have permissions [sic] to edit this message". And I don't what the random slashes around the quotes are for...

Although I can edit this one just fine, oddly enough.

[tintin]

Yes, Michael Howard 62 or 63 (I forget which), but he has been in government - which Mr Letwin has not. I am an optimist in these things and believe that people learn from their experience: Mr Howard was last in government 8 years ago and I would have thought that he would have managed to think over what he did, and what the last Tory government did, and think of ways to better it / appeal more to people etc. The Tories cannot keep chopping and changing their leader; hopefully Howard will stay for the next term. If they are elected perhaps he might stand down at the end, but then look at Churchill who was hardly a spring chicken when he was elected for his last term in the 1950's, was he? People are all too quick to put down old people, whereas they are the very ones we should be listening to as having learned from their mistakes. Even I wish I knew at 17 what I do now - so we can [hopefully] look forward to a PM who has moved on from 1997.

[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/mat_salleh

[Mr Comedy]

Quoting Humphrey from 19:12, 15th Apr 2005

Quoting big_phil from 17:30, 15th Apr 2005
The only thing they have got right is to ban fox hunting.

Sorry to shatter any illusions you may have but they haven't exactly banned it. All they did was produce an extremely badly drafted bill in which many forms of hunting foxes are still legal and many loopholes can be found in the legislation. Its business as usual I'm afraid. I just enjoy sitting back and watching both sides continue to antagonise each other. If that's labour's greatest achievement then its been a pretty shoddy two terms.

Humphrey is right. I still go fox hunting, and I haven't been stopped, even whilst riding past the police.

[Guest]

[img]http://www.imagemonster.org/getimg/image4.gif[/img]