why to vote Tory rather than Labour

[Smith]

Quoting Steveo from 14:18, 4th May 2005
And we all know that not voting Conservative will solve all these problems, give it a rest.

New Labour have fucked up, the only alternative is the Conservatives.

Read their policies, they all make remarkable sense.

so, just how have new labour fucked up, by the way? I think Britain is a much nicer country to live in than before Labour was in government. If the Conservatives had stayed in, we would no longer have an NHS. It amazes me that people complain about taxes and NHS, but if you are forced to go private you would realize that the medical insurance you pay would far outweigh the tax you pay that goes towards the NHS anyway.

[hr]

I tried thinking of an innovative witty remark, but could only come up with this...

[Smith]

Quoting HungryDan from 15:29, 4th May 2005
I think many posters on this board are lacking a lot of compassion and understanding, the ability to think outside of your little fairytale world. Seriously, how can you blame someone for being born into poverty and not succeeding while you have been born into a life with all the opertunities and privilages that these people have never been foortunate enough to experience. The truth is, poverty is self continuing, poverty breeds poverty. If you lot had been born in easterhouse, very few of you would hav managed to make it to university and instead would be working a shitty deadend job.

Oh yeah, and that's rubbish as well, I went to a state school of about 600 people, most people there were very poor, including myself, (and I still am).

out of the 70 or so in my year, there are at least 15 that I know of that went to University, and 10 that went to College.

[hr]

I tried thinking of an innovative witty remark, but could only come up with this...

[HungryDan]

"Oh yeah, and that's rubbish as well, I went to a state school of about 600 people, most people there were very poor, including myself, (and I still am).

out of the 70 or so in my year, there are at least 15 that I know of that went to University, and 10 that went to College".

Im not saying that you are doomed if born into poverty, just that it is harder to get into higher education than a person form a middle class backround. Statistics reflect this.

[Stuart]

Quoting Smith from 15:38, 4th May 2005

so, just how have new labour fucked up, by the way? I think Britain is a much nicer country to live in than before Labour was in government. If the Conservatives had stayed in, we would no longer have an NHS. It amazes me that people complain about taxes and NHS, but if you are forced to go private you would realize that the medical insurance you pay would far outweigh the tax you pay that goes towards the NHS anyway.

Oh please. We had 35 year in which we could have abolished the NHS. Did we? No.

And you are obviously paying far too much for medical insurance if it equals, or exceeds, the average person's tax burden in Blair's Britain.

[Smith]

sorry, i think you misinterpreted what I am saying. And also, i remember the last general election, they Tories said they were planning on scrapping the NHS.

What I was saying about medical insurance is simple. In "Blairs Britain" you pay tax - this goes to NHS, education, councils, military and so on.
In a non-NHS country you pay tax - this goes to education, councils, military and so on. But you also pay medical insurance.
Medical insurance + Tax = greater cost.
Even you must see this?

People need to stop complaining about tax, tax is the only way to effectively run a country, without it the economy would collapse as everyone privatised their own back yards and charged a fortune to walk near their path.

[hr]

I tried thinking of an innovative witty remark, but could only come up with this...

[Stuart]

Quoting Smith from 16:00, 4th May 2005
sorry, i think you misinterpreted what I am saying. And also, i remember the last general election, they Tories said they were planning on scrapping the NHS.

I'm sorry, but that's absolute rubbish.

I've been involved in every Conservative election campaign since 1997, and I think I would remember a pledge to abolish the NHS.

[Smith]

check it out then - I remember them saying it was in their long term plans. I was only 15 at the time, and I can remember.

[hr]

I tried thinking of an innovative witty remark, but could only come up with this...

[The Badger Machine]

Fellow left wing students, do not get worked up and angry at the comments of the evil right-wing fools.
Stay calm and remember that in the early hours of friday morning we will be toasting another crushing Conservative defeat hopefully with gains for the Lib dems and an improved vote for the socialist parties.
I can almost hear the excuses being prepared already......

[Yeats]

Look Smith, I'm sorry but the Tories never said they planned to abolish the NHS that's just not true.

[hr]

Some day we shall be glad to remember such things

[Smith]

Also, it seems that a lot of people are misinformed when it comes to tax. If you are earning £100,000 a year, you do not pay £40,000 tax a year.

It works like this (these figures may be innacurate, but you get the idea):
the first £6,250 is tax-free
earnings over £6,250 up to £25,000 are taxed at 20%
earnings over £25,000 up to £100,000 are taxed at 25%
earnings over £100,000 are taxed at 40%.

This is a means tested method of taxation - you can't simply say "tax everyone the same" because life isn't that simple. Everyone still has the same basic needs, and people with a much larger income will still be able to access these needs even if they are paying slightly more tax.

I thought everybody understood this stuff, we are meant to be among the brightest people in Scotland, come on guys.

[hr]

I tried thinking of an innovative witty remark, but could only come up with this...

edit: about the NHS thing - maybe it was something my dad said? If it's definitely not true, then fair enough, but I was pretty sure it was true.

[Senethro]

Communism.

[Stuart]

Quoting Smith from 16:12, 4th May 2005
check it out then - I remember them saying it was in their long term plans. I was only 15 at the time, and I can remember.

Funnily enough, when I was deciding on which 20kgs worth of stuff to bring with me to uni this year, I didn't pack a copy of the party's 2001 manifesto.

However, the BBC helpfully still has details of our health policies for that election - http://news.bbc.co.uk/vote2001/hi/engli ... 173431.stm

If however, I am wrong, and the BBC (which is, of course, so very pro-Conservative) elected to leave out Tory policies concerning the abolition of the NHS, then I feel I must apologise to the voters of Leven, Glenrothes, and anywhere else I helped canvas during the 2001 election, for lying about our plans to abolish the NHS.

You know, it's funny how nobody brought up these (rather important) plans on the doorstep. You would think someone would have asked us about it.

[Senethro]

While they never have overtly said they want to abolish the NHS, I believe that there are some Conservative party members who would. I also suspect that the NHS under a LONG period of unbroken conservative government would be underfunded until scrapping it would be the only option. This underfunding may or may not arise from a conscious agenda with scrapping in mind.

[Smith]

Quoting Stuart from 16:28, 4th May 2005

Quoting Smith from 16:12, 4th May 2005
check it out then - I remember them saying it was in their long term plans. I was only 15 at the time, and I can remember.

Funnily enough, when I was deciding on which 20kgs worth of stuff to bring with me to uni this year, I didn't pack a copy of the party's 2001 manifesto.

However, the BBC helpfully still has details of our health policies for that election - http://news.bbc.co.uk/vote2001/hi/engli ... 173431.stm

If however, I am wrong, and the BBC (which is, of course, so very pro-Conservative) elected to leave out Tory policies concerning the abolition of the NHS, then I feel I must apologise to the voters of Leven, Glenrothes, and anywhere else I helped canvas during the 2001 election, for lying about our plans to abolish the NHS.

You know, it's funny how nobody brought up these (rather important) plans on the doorstep. You would think someone would have asked us about it.

Well, reading this quote sums it all up for me, to be fair...
"The Conservatives believe encouraging growth in the independent sector will raise health care standards for everyone."

[hr]

I tried thinking of an innovative witty remark, but could only come up with this...

[Guest]

"Oh yeah, and that's rubbish as well, I went to a state school of about 600 people, most people there were very poor, including myself, (and I still am).

out of the 70 or so in my year, there are at least 15 that I know of that went to University, and 10 that went to College."

Im not saying that you are doomed if born into poverty, just that it is a lot harder to get into higher education than if you are from a middle class background and statistics reflect this.

[Humphrey]

Haha, i'm scared some of you guys are actually voting. If anything this thread shows that most people -even the intelligentsia'- vote based purely on prejudice and don't bother to look at the manifestos. Politics is essentially like chinese whispers. People say something in a speech and when it eventually filters through to the general public it becomes distorted and unrecognisable. Hence tough stance on immigration = outright racism, reform the health service = scrap the health service.

Me, I'm being an appauling citizen and not voting. I live in a safe labour seat and i'm too fat and lazy to walk to the polling station.

[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[Smith]

and if all the fat lazy people like you that were going to this safe labour seat to vote labour did what you're doing, then it wouldn't be so safe, would it?

[hr]

I tried thinking of an innovative witty remark, but could only come up with this...

[Ian McFarlane]

Quoting The Badger Machine from 16:12, 4th May 2005
Fellow left wing students, do not get worked up and angry at the comments of the evil right-wing fools.
Stay calm and remember that in the early hours of friday morning we will be toasting another crushing Conservative defeat hopefully with gains for the Lib dems and an improved vote for the socialist parties.
I can almost hear the excuses being prepared already......

Mr Machine, another New Labour victory on Thursday night (god forbid) would of course be another victory for conservatism. If I was one of your 'fellow left wing students' I would be a tad depressed a the prospect of a seventh consecutive election triumph for the Right. Hopefully though, it'll be the Tories, as Labour are so incompetent in so many ways.

maoam

[Tweedle-Dum]

Quoting Smith from 16:32, 4th May 2005

Quoting Stuart from 16:28, 4th May 2005

Quoting Smith from 16:12, 4th May 2005
check it out then - I remember them saying it was in their long term plans. I was only 15 at the time, and I can remember.

Funnily enough, when I was deciding on which 20kgs worth of stuff to bring with me to uni this year, I didn't pack a copy of the party's 2001 manifesto.

However, the BBC helpfully still has details of our health policies for that election - http://news.bbc.co.uk/vote2001/hi/engli ... 173431.stm

If however, I am wrong, and the BBC (which is, of course, so very pro-Conservative) elected to leave out Tory policies concerning the abolition of the NHS, then I feel I must apologise to the voters of Leven, Glenrothes, and anywhere else I helped canvas during the 2001 election, for lying about our plans to abolish the NHS.

You know, it's funny how nobody brought up these (rather important) plans on the doorstep. You would think someone would have asked us about it.

Well, reading this quote sums it all up for me, to be fair...
"The Conservatives believe encouraging growth in the independent sector will raise health care standards for everyone."

Because it will lead to shorter waiting lists, and give some competition to the unsustainable behomoth which is and was every nationalised brittish industry. Every party's commitment to free healthcare for all at point of service still stands, the conservative party merely want shorter waiting lists, and if that means that it costs the public sector half of what it would have cost for many operations, then that's money in the pocket of the taxpayers, and the brilliant thing is that the money is never "lost" to the privte sector, it is spent, (or even better right now) invested in a bank to prop up the nation's consumer debt (over £1 Trillion) and stop our economy collapsing under the tax and borrow then spend policies of the current government, whose economics are based on the hope that when the economy crashes properly as a result of debt, the Tories will be in and it'll be called "Tory boom and bust" as they wash their hands of the issue.

[hr]

Live by the sword, die by the arrow.

[Humphrey]

Quoting Smith from 16:53, 4th May 2005
and if all the fat lazy people like you that were going to this safe labour seat to vote labour did what you're doing, then it wouldn't be so safe, would it?

Potentially yes, but its incredibly unlikely. It would take a miracle for my constituency to change hands so if I did vote it would essentially be for novelty value only. Of course its possible to envisage a scenario where no Labour voters turn out, but I find it better to think in terms of actual probabilities, rather than in terms of elevated principles of ‘citizenship’.

[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/